No Tech Trade

[Xerberus]

tech trading in 4x games has been always one of the biggest exploits! i (and most of the forum community it seems) disagree respectfully...meaning we are AGAINST tech trading .

 

[EmperorZelos]

wait what? They have traded in the blorg videos!

 

[corny.1234]

I personally do not like Tech trade, give me a game where not everybody has the same technology.

Yeah it's quite boring, I remember playing endless space and every 2 secs in the mid/late game you get a trade offer and after some trades you don't care anymore what you get.

Having no tech trades, not all techs researchable and a non linear tech tree makes the game more valuable in my opinion.

 

[urkuru]

I'll have to disagree with you, on basis of what other people already stated.

Idea from exewon might have a merit though

It would be fun if having a trading agreement with a race weighed the tech deck of the two empires so that they are more likely to draw the same options. To kinda simulate the fact that the scientists are working together closely. But that's probably one of those things that's harder to implement then it seems at first.

Mayhaps that would be a good middle ground, without making technology in a galaxy near you too monolithic?

 

[corny.1234]

wait what? They have traded in the blorg videos!

Research agreement. You get a research bonus for certain techs they already have

 

[4verse]

Because it would be such a change to the game that balancing it would require a huge amount of work and result in a fundamental change to how the game works.

Consider that tech-trading tends to be hugely problematic in most (all, really) games that permit it, causing massive balance issues. And that's in games that have tech-trading in mind from day one. Stellaris is designed with the assumption that tech-trading isn't available, resulting in a very different tech system. The random nature of tech options, for example, is rendered pretty pointless if you can just buy missing techs from a friendly neighbour. Consider: imagine you have a choice of three good techs, but you aren't sure which one to get - so you check to see which ones your allies have and are willing to sell cheaply and then research the other one.



As mentioned, you can plunder tech. Also, there is actually a form of tech-trading in the game - you can make research agreements with your neighbours, giving you a research boost. It just doesn't allow you to cherry pick those techs that you want, allowing you to build a super-tech empire that crushes all resistance.

Hm, i see your points and they do seem reasonable.

But research agreements only granting a boost sounds a little bit uninspired. I guess research partners do research on mutual projects

 

[KonradKurze202]

I get your point and am fine with it. But again: why not optional? If you dont like/want it, dont use it.

BTW: its not realistic: why would a winner of a war not plunder technology?

Because not everything can be attached to a switch.
I feel like I've said this 5-6 times in this forum in the last month. Any feature requires dev time, you literally cannot just throw a switch saying 'Now you can trade techs!', there are no systems for it in the game, they'd have to develop the ability to be given techs, they'd need to also develop a UI for it, give each techs individual weights for the AI, a ton of work would need to go into allowing AI's to appropriately balance tech (your FTL tech for example is something that would be incredibly highly valued and shouldn't be traded except in dire circumstances).

There is no so such thing as 'just make it optional'. It is always work to add features.

 

[EmperorZelos]

Research agreement. You get a research bonus for certain techs they already have

Oh I thought it was tech trade

 

[Murmeldjuret]

If you want to read up on how tech trading works irl just read wikipedias article on the Manhattan project, while it might not be 100% true it gives you a sense of one of the most cooperative of tech trades, and it still faced massive resistance that lasted years.

Irl you did trade tech, but it is more often in the form of equipment sales, especially a bit outdated. I might say that later being able to sell ships and them being able to reverse engineer them is an acceptable middle-ground.

Outright tech trade is abusable since the AI is always not as savvy with it as humans so it is exploitable singleplayer, and it gives teams a massive bonus in multiplayer to the extent that it becomes necessity. I always have tech trading of any sort disabled in my 4x games.

 

[Beric]

For the same reason a "first person shooter mode" isnt optional.

That's pretty much the ultimate response to all of the "just make it optional!" feature whiners. I'll be using that in the future, if you don't mind.

 

[Druesling]

You could probably argue that tech trading could be possible very limited with the generic "Lasers XIV" and "Shields MCMLXXII" technologies. Maybe you could balance that. No space empire will go around an trade their "Superspecial Interocitor Technology" with some Blorg upstarts.
But is there merit in getting "Hydroponics XXVIII" when you already got "Hydroponics XXVI"?

 

[4verse]

Ok, ok ...

You have convinced me. Tech trade is bad and not very realistic in its basic forms.

But a deeper research agreement mechanic would be nice, though.

 

[Druesling]

You can bet your hat that diplomacy will get deeper with DLCs.

 

[jaredstanko]

Because not everything can be attached to a switch.
I feel like I've said this 5-6 times in this forum in the last month. Any feature requires dev time, you literally cannot just throw a switch saying 'Now you can trade techs!', there are no systems for it in the game, they'd have to develop the ability to be given techs, they'd need to also develop a UI for it, give each techs individual weights for the AI, a ton of work would need to go into allowing AI's to appropriately balance tech (your FTL tech for example is something that would be incredibly highly valued and shouldn't be traded except in dire circumstances).

There is no so such thing as 'just make it optional'. It is always work to add features.

Here is an exploit, trade the valuable tech for everything you own with one civ, and then fleece every other civ in the game for that same tech and then do the same to the first civ so thwy dont have an advantage over you. Im sure we have all played that strategy before.

 

[Fenarid]

So, there will be no tech trade (one of the devs said so in a video, look it up in the sticky video thread) b/c he does not like it b/c this way all factions may get all techs.

I respectfully disagree, ie I am FOR tech trade in all its forms:
- simple exchange / donations (between ferderation/alliance partners)
- espionage / theft
- real trade
- plundering/war gains (the winner of a war)


SO, can/could it be modded in?

God no! The only posibble way to do it right is if u have huge cooldown on this 10+y, or u pay aditional influence points like 1000+ for tech. But i vote for no tech trade.

 

[schultz]

Here is an exploit, trade the valuable tech for everything you own with one civ, and then fleece every other civ in the game for that same tech and then do the same to the first civ so thwy dont have an advantage over you. Im sure we have all played that strategy before.

It is indeed an exploit. And a human player would have a very unfair advantage over an AI player if tech trading was available.

 

[Soranya]

I am pretty sure tech trading could be modded in via desicions/events - a lot of work certainly, but shoudl be doable if the Stellaris version of Clausewitz is anything alike the Versions we have in EU4/CK2/Vicy2 - also it might require to forward a dew more things to the script, some work, but much much less then implementing a whole system with AI weights and so on.

On another note my personal favorite for techtrading, as an idea, not a fully fledged out feature:
If you want a specific technology you aquire a project that can be researched after that the Tech Card is either added to your deck, or if it was allready present, the Chance that this Card apears as an option is increased significantly.
That way, you have some form of tech trading, but you effectively have to spend MORE research to get it then via regular research (but have the chance to aquire tech otherwise very unlikely or impossible to get)

Especially when a DLC with Espionage Mechanics is developed some form of techtrading/stealing seems feasible.

The Classic tech trading we know from e.g. Civ 4 and manx other games really is bad - so i'd rather have no trading then the Civ Style trading.

 

[schultz]

If you were going to steal a tech from an empire, I would be totally against instantly getting the tech.

I'd be more amenable to some sort of system where if you successfully stole a technology, then it would be guaranteed to show up in your next draw from the deck,. You would still have to research it normally, but you know that it would be among your next choice.

 

[pguyton]

They do something far more clever - if you have a research agreement there is. Chance that their available research cards may get shuffled into your deck. Direct trading can be problematic to balance.

 

[Smiles_]

They do something far more clever - if you have a research agreement there is. Chance that their available research cards may get shuffled into your deck. Direct trading can be problematic to balance.

This is in the game? I like.


Smiles