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NI_Mcknight

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Well I have been fairly bored of Ck2 for quite a while, but after watching some of Mel Gibson's anti-English propaganda otherwise known as Braveheart, I thaught it would be great to play the Scottish wars for independence as the Bruce. So I went to the last starting date rewinded a few years, however there is no stage when a war between Scotland and England is shown which boggled me. :p
 

Sleight of Hand

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No historical wars are represented, not even the Crusades.

All we have at present are the 1066 invasions of England and Armenia and a possibly fictional 'War of the two Eriks'
 

NI_Mcknight

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Thats disapointing... Surprised I haven't caught on to that yet...
 

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Historical Wars aren't in it seems. Only just noticed this, apart from the Norman and Norwegian invasions in 1066. Also if you think that's propaganda then read Blind Harry's Wallace :D

[edit] beaten to it.
 

SRM

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Historical wars can be added in, to an extent (obviously in a 1066 game butterflies will wipe out stuff like the Hundred Year War occurring on schedule), but no one's really taken the time to do so.
 

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I know it would be near impossible, but having the option for the AI to do semi-historical things. Such as people only declaring holy wars on baltic pagans after the Teutonic Order has been established, Or England acquiring the Angevin lands in the 1160's. It would be a game-gasm for me, since I am really tired of Fatimid invasion of Greece and Sicily.
 

lokomoko

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Well I have been fairly bored of Ck2 for quite a while, but after watching some of Mel Gibson's anti-English propaganda otherwise known as Braveheart, I thaught it would be great to play the Scottish wars for independence as the Bruce. So I went to the last starting date rewinded a few years, however there is no stage when a war between Scotland and England is shown which boggled me. :p

I was thinking of creating something like this in my mod. Possibly when England controls a certain percentage of Scotland (And Scotland the Kingdom (Perhaps a Scottish Duchy)) exists, an event would fire triggering a reconquest war or something. I think I could also create an event which gives the attacking realm a lot of soldiers (Williams followers) and a courtier: William Wallace, with very high martial and true battlefield traits :p . I may also be able to add a new bookmark and historical war (Scottish independence or revolt) against the English. It may take me some time, especially considering I'm not full-time working on this, but I think it would definitely be worth it in the end.
 

Divi

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CK2plus fixes it a bit by making the Holy War cb cost piety unless you have 500 piety to ask the pope for permission. Personally I think the 100-200 piety hit you take isn't enough, especially considering a lot of Baltic pagans are count or duke level and the worst piety hits are only for the higher tier rulers.
 

yezhanquan

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They should have put in the EU3 system of starts: when you select a random date, the historical conflicts on the date are happening between the relevant parties. Or does Paradox want us to buy a History DLC?
 

Ols

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Nationalism wasn't really a concept in a period so it seems rather bizzare to have a Scottish war of independence if the feudal lords and kings in the area have no will to fight the English off. Besides, the English rarely conquer much of Scotland.
 

Divi

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Nationalism wasn't really a concept in a period so it seems rather bizzare to have a Scottish war of independence if the feudal lords and kings in the area have no will to fight the English off. Besides, the English rarely conquer much of Scotland.

Except there was a scottish war of independence in reality.
 

Theddude

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Wow, such a coincidence, I just watched Braveheart myself tonight! :D I also thought about CK2 when I was watching it, although I was thinking more about how it would be cool to have more plots and intrigues like the Princess was alluding to in the movie. More on topic it would be cool to see more historical stuff, not necessarily everything but maybe just the most important wars of the period.
 

lokomoko

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Nationalism wasn't really a concept in a period so it seems rather bizzare to have a Scottish war of independence if the feudal lords and kings in the area have no will to fight the English off. Besides, the English rarely conquer much of Scotland.

Well no, Nationalism wasn't a defined idea or word back then. Nationalism itself was in its infancy; people were not fighting for the country itself, but the people that live within its borders. Frankly this sort of response is to be expected, given the fact that Edward chose to allow the Lords in Scotland the rights of Primae Noctis.

These sort of revolutions are already somewhat portrayed, I think the event goes something like "The peasants have taken up arms against your oppressive rule" And a one or two thousand man army spawns in the province of question. These rebellions are very easily crushed, sometimes just by raising the levies in the actual province, not to mention the complete lifelessness of the rebels, they just sit there waiting for the inhabitants of the castle to surrender. Once they've conquered the County they don't even move on, just sack and loot the holdings which is, in my knowledge, quite counter-intuitive.

To get to the point, there needs to be a proper revolt against the English when/if they control part/all of Scotland, mainly backed by the peasants. Possibly the Noble pushing for the restoration of Scotland could have the option to betray the peasants and give in to English rule, or continue fighting and restore its independence.
 

unmerged(494787)

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Well, being as they're a different culture, Scottish lords will normally revolt off and on when conquered by England until they're replaced. On the Primae Noctis note, modern scholars believe that it's basically propoganda and later revisionism - the "Historians" who tell of it always seem to be attributing it to some other, not-so-friendly country, for some odd reason.
 

lokomoko

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Well, being as they're a different culture, Scottish lords will normally revolt off and on when conquered by England until they're replaced. On the Primae Noctis note, modern scholars believe that it's basically propoganda and later revisionism - the "Historians" who tell of it always seem to be attributing it to some other, not-so-friendly country, for some odd reason.

Yes, well, revising revisionism is a double edged sword and frankly from the mechanics I've seen in CK2, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Prima Noctis and possibly many other foul deeds were implemented by the Anglo-Normans. After all, history is written by the victor.
 

Olaus Petrus

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No historical wars are represented, not even the Crusades.

All we have at present are the 1066 invasions of England and Armenia and a possibly fictional 'War of the two Eriks'

That's the problem with a lot of medieval history, you got one source (in this case Adam of Bremen) who says something and then there's no way of verifying if it's actually true or just hearsay. Then there's sometimes problem with conflicting sources and you might have two opposing accounts but no real way to determine which one is correct or if both are just medieval propaganda. And then there's cases where sources don't tell you anything conclusive, but historians have reconstructed what might have happened. Anglo-Scottish border before 1092 is one example of this. Some historians think that Dolfin of Carlisle might have been vassal of Malcolm III of Scotland, but there's little real evidence that area was part of Scotland at that point, so other historians think that Cumbria (formerly part of Northumbria) was at that point no man's land ruled by local Anglo-Saxon lord, who opposed king of England. Then there's Lothian which was considered still in 1090s de jure part of England, but de facto part of Scotland. But English never tried to take it back, because it was enough for them that Scottish kings recognized nominal English overlordship of Britain. That nominal overlordship is something which caused a lot of problems later. Scots claimed that it was a complete lie that such overlordship ever existed and English used it as an evidence that Scotland had been feudal vassal of England.

In these cases Paradox has just picked one theory and used it as a basis for game's set up.
 
Last edited:

spinoza013

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All I know is we won in 1314 and we'll win again in 2014 .:)