Advice
Planning on relying on the market. Anyone done this before and did the numbers stack up?
No refineries - will it work?
- Thread starter Agamemnic
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I don't think it's doable. At least not if your needs are high. I had to rely on the market for gas and crystals for a number of years due to shortages and their cost was enormous. Luckily I had a massive industry that allowed me to stay afloat, but only barely. Had my needs grown a bit more it wouldn't be possible. Generally it's a precarious situation you would be putting yourself in by relying solely on the market for advanced resources.
it's not very viable (IMHO) cuz you'll have more and more needs in resources. so the prices will rise above the cap.
but you can survive the early game on this strategy and later build yourself an ecumenopolis
Forget it.
Or I wish you good luck when each of these resources gets to 50 EC on the market.
Or I wish you good luck when each of these resources gets to 50 EC on the market.
It depends. Refiner pops produce more value then most pops.
At base production, assuming no market fees:
An artisan produces ~6 energy (6 consumer goods valued at 2 each, -6 minerals valued at 1 each).
A refiner produces ~10 energy (2 advanced materials at 10, -10 minerals valued at 1 each).
If you have more pops then building slots to use them, then refineries are very good. If, however, you have high population density, and are running out of building slots, then refineries are less efficient. The key thing to remember is that refineries produce more per pop, but less per building then an advanced building. For example
Advanced consumer goods factory requires 6 energy and 2 crystals, and the jobs require 48 minerals. If you convert that into equivalent energy costs, that's 74. they make 96 energy from the consumer goods, so total profit of 22 energy., the refinery, with it's maintenance included, is only 7 energy. For the refinery it's 7 energy per pop, while the consumer good factory is 2.75 energy per pop.
If you were running utopian abundance at the same time, the refinery gets better, as it's now 5 energy per pop, vs 0.75 energy per pop for the advanced consumer good factory. Further the consumer good factory only makes 3.75 per pop, so it now makes less then the refinery. Finally, you factor in food, and the consumer good factory is now losing energy.
Of course, if you have factors that increase production on a % basis, the factory can start to do better again.
However, when you factor in the inefficiencies of using the market, you're probably better off using refineries.
The more interesting question is if it's better to import minerals to make refined resources, or just to import the refined resource directly.
At base production, assuming no market fees:
An artisan produces ~6 energy (6 consumer goods valued at 2 each, -6 minerals valued at 1 each).
A refiner produces ~10 energy (2 advanced materials at 10, -10 minerals valued at 1 each).
If you have more pops then building slots to use them, then refineries are very good. If, however, you have high population density, and are running out of building slots, then refineries are less efficient. The key thing to remember is that refineries produce more per pop, but less per building then an advanced building. For example
Advanced consumer goods factory requires 6 energy and 2 crystals, and the jobs require 48 minerals. If you convert that into equivalent energy costs, that's 74. they make 96 energy from the consumer goods, so total profit of 22 energy., the refinery, with it's maintenance included, is only 7 energy. For the refinery it's 7 energy per pop, while the consumer good factory is 2.75 energy per pop.
If you were running utopian abundance at the same time, the refinery gets better, as it's now 5 energy per pop, vs 0.75 energy per pop for the advanced consumer good factory. Further the consumer good factory only makes 3.75 per pop, so it now makes less then the refinery. Finally, you factor in food, and the consumer good factory is now losing energy.
Of course, if you have factors that increase production on a % basis, the factory can start to do better again.
However, when you factor in the inefficiencies of using the market, you're probably better off using refineries.
The more interesting question is if it's better to import minerals to make refined resources, or just to import the refined resource directly.
You'll be bleeding credits like mad, it's doable if you keep your deficit low... but that's not really an option in this game as you are always in a desperate growth spiral.
I usually try to stay slightly negative in strategic resources so that I am buying a small amount from the market all the time. I think this is probably the way to go, because it lets you function slightly above your capability to support yourself without the massive financial problems that go with it. Buying all of them off the market is really only viable as a megacorp since you most likely are playing tall and don't need many but have a huge bank account.
un-upgraded buildings will get you far in the game. You can compensate pretty well by going wide. I tend to avoid refining as much as I can. But also, I tend to stop playing earlier than what people call late game. Don't really enjoy it, and my computer isn't top notch, lol, also I usually stop playing when I have conquered galaxy and dont wait around for end crisis.
If you have a massive enough surplus of other resources, you can stay afloat comfortably if you make big purchases. Do not set automatic trade, buy 1000 at once everytime. By the time you need another 1000 purchase, the price should have came back to standard price unless the AIs are also buying a lot.
Of course if you are deep in negatives, it becomes too costly.
Of course if you are deep in negatives, it becomes too costly.
Refineries are actually mad profitable to make rare resources and sell to the market or other AIs. Easily by far the most productive job a single pop can work at. Less efficient in terms of profitability per building slot though, but compared with buying them on the market I'd say you are probably always ahead making them on your own.
You pretty much have to get Ecumenopolises to build your economy past a certain density, and strategic resources are a significant part of this: arcologies don't use any motes/crystals/gases. So in the end your refineries are mostly supplying various other kinds of building, notably labs and commerce megaplexes (although how much you should spam the latter is another interesting question).
As a rough rule of thumb I'd say buying strategic resources at 10 energy per unit is pretty much always worth it, but at 20 energy per unit, you're doing something wrong and should try to make them yourself.
I made a run recently with a hivemind. I ignored most advanced buildings, got some rare resources from space / planetary deposits and was absolutely fine for the most part.
The main problem is that you will have large uneployment or huge surplus of basic resources with little chance to use them unless you get your hands on ecumenopolis early. The problem can be partially offset by employing pops as clerks or domestic slaves, but this is a horrible, horrible use of pops. Midgame you can spam habitats that don't need rare resources to employ all residential pops and this is slighly better, but still meh.