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Viperswhip

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Generally if you take province that are the same religion you are maybe...30ish years until the are at 0-0, same culture, a bit more quickly, and you can accelerate it by paying attention and using those buttons, those give you a 30 year bonus one way or the other. If you have lots of military points, just let the rebellions grow and crush them with Harsh Treatment, autonomy will drop and as nationalism fades away, the revolt risk drops to 0 and Autonomy drops at, depending on government type, and how often you are at war, 1.2 per year minimum. It's really not bad, I have conquered a lot in my Byz games, annexed vassals suffer the same issues, but they are much better 20 years later, and 30 fully productive. It's a bit closer to EU3 in that regard.
 

Surgünoglu

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What does Peter the Great have to do with the topic? He is among the few Russian rulers which had other significant business than expansion. Russia goes Peter the Great in 1491. I did that as Novgorod. OP doesn't want to learn the game mechanics. That's that.
P.S. I always wondered what drives people to jump in a random topic with a random quote (like you did or illapa) without contributing to a discussion?

And I always wonder what drives us to analyze others' posting style.

Let me spell it out. I have seen Russia become overpowered frequently, and the Muscovy-Novgorodian conflict play out far too quickly, in my subjective opinion. If there is a speed bump on this process, then I am happy to hear it. Referring to Peter was my attempt at saying that Russia becomes anachronistically powerful in a number of my plays-through.

And if you've always wondered what drives us to post this or that, ask. I comment on posts that I find significant, relevant to my experience, or interesting; that's it. Welcome to the forums.
 

itsuart

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The economy would sink on all those reinforcemens/recruitments.
Of course it wouldn't. Unless you decided to treat war with Ottos like war with some poor Horde.

I let you present us with you research of throwing bodies at Ottos in 1560-1580 as Muscovy.
I was beating them somewhere around 1600 as Najd in 1.7. With full Aristocratic and (maybe) partial Offensive as military ideas. It wasn't cakewalk but wasn't that hard either. AFAIK eastern tech units aren't worse than muslim ones.
 

Zak Preston

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Russia does fall behind on discipline as all top-tier nations (like, Sweden) gets discipline bonus. Russia lacks any proper quality NIs.
That doesn't work for me. The great pleasure of Russian game is taking Ottomans no later than 1560-1580. You'll be decimated using your approach. Without a chance.

I prefer quality investments. Like this.

http://imgur.com/AnMx9VD - army tradition without decay (combat ability is a OK, too)
http://imgur.com/ECKUUhZ - top-tier generals
http://imgur.com/bPWJ19s - wiping out revoked HRE stacks, which have a numerical superiority; no mountain cheesing, I was the attacker
http://imgur.com/sUrgiQ3 - just to confirm wipes
http://imgur.com/63ZiTgr - on the mil tech comparison

What am I supposed to do with this limit anyway? Greater naval limit would be welcomed. All my Mediterranean provinces have naval buildings maxed out for this puny limit.

P.S. forgot the ideas. http://imgur.com/3LHJhz5


Do you want to give Muscovy\Russia more military NI's to match Sweden, Prussia or France? With proper military ideas they will be able to boost their manpower over 1kk and forcelimit to 500 in around 1650. Are you crazy?
 

nicechinos

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And I always wonder what drives us to analyze others' posting style.

Let me spell it out. I have seen Russia become overpowered frequently, and the Muscovy-Novgorodian conflict play out far too quickly, in my subjective opinion. If there is a speed bump on this process, then I am happy to hear it. Referring to Peter was my attempt at saying that Russia becomes anachronistically powerful in a number of my plays-through.

And if you've always wondered what drives us to post this or that, ask. I comment on posts that I find significant, relevant to my experience, or interesting; that's it. Welcome to the forums.

Novgorod was absolutely doomed IRL. It didn't put up a fight. EU4 is quite a reflection of history in this case. Just to let you know Peter is not the most well-known militarist personality in Russian history. He's famous for westernizing and creating Russian navy. You should use Catherine the Great instead. The second post is more meaningful than first. Welcome to the discussion.
 
Last edited:

MiniaAr

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Day 1: Create Qasim Khanate as a Vassal (there's a core in Kasimov).

Day 2+: Feed them all the cores you can from your Tatar neighbors (they seem to take everything while on a militarist leader), and let them convert to Orthodox.

Later on, integrate Qasim Khanate, and convert cultures at will.
Hum interesting this Qasim Khanate strategy. Do they actually convert and don't they have to many problems that you have to babysit them?
 

Zak Preston

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Novgorod was absolutely doomed IRL. It didn't put up a fight. EU4 is quite a reflection of history in this case. Just to let you know Peter is the most well-known militarist personality in Russian history. He's famous for westernizing and creating Russian navy. You should use Catherine the Great instead. The second post is more meaningful than first. Welcome to the discussion.

Novgorod is always doomed unless a very skilled player pick them. You can help Novgorod however you want, but they always fall to Muscovy. Heck, I even had agame where I fed all Muscovian provinces to AI-controlled Novgorod and Muscovian rebels rose and took all back. To say nothing about their unwillingness to fight hordes and colonize.
 

nicechinos

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Do you want to give Muscovy\Russia more military NI's to match Sweden, Prussia or France? With proper military ideas they will be able to boost their manpower over 1kk and forcelimit to 500 in around 1650. Are you crazy?

I might have missed your point. I would give Muscovy at least +1 army tradition instead of +0.5 army tradition (which will be weeell below France, Sweden, Prussia, Austria and Spain). It sure is not worse than Naxos or Cyprus in this sense. Russia removed Sweden from pantheon of top-tier European superpowers. HRE and PLC were absolutely stomped by Sweden. Don't they know what good manners are in Ruthenia these days?
Might as well add +5% discipline as even Ruthenian principalities get one.
 

Zak Preston

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I might have missed your point. I would give Muscovy at least +1 army tradition instead of +0.5 army tradition (which will be weeell below France, Sweden, Prussia, Austria and Spain). It sure is not worse than Naxos or Cyprus in this sense. Russia removed Sweden from pantheon of top-tier European superpowers. HRE and PLC were absolutely stomped by Sweden. Don't they know what good manners are in Ruthenia these days?

Russia has quite enough easy targets to boost their traditions in combat, IMHO. I often see 5/5/5/2 Russian generals in AI hands in midgame. And haven't you forgot that Russia is a lucky nation?

Sweden stomped an extremely weakened PLC (thanks to Khmelnytsky), and Russia stomped Sweden around 50 years later, mostly due to Peter I tactical skill. And stomped while having twice the number of troops on their own land using scorched earth tactics.
 

Sarmatian

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I might have missed your point. I would give Muscovy at least +1 army tradition instead of +0.5 army tradition (which will be weeell below France, Sweden, Prussia, Austria and Spain). It sure is not worse than Naxos or Cyprus in this sense. Russia removed Sweden from pantheon of top-tier European superpowers. HRE and PLC were absolutely stomped by Sweden. Don't they know what good manners are in Ruthenia these days?
Might as well add +5% discipline as even Ruthenian principalities get one.

Well, historically, Russia didn't have that big of a manpower advantage. That's mostly ww2 myth finding its way into earlier times. It would make sense to cut down on Quantity in Russian NIs and add some Quality...

It would benefit both players and AI. Players wouldn't have to build much bigger armies to defeat other Great Powers and players against AI Russia wouldn't have to go through tedious job of wiping hundreds upon hundreds of units every few years to get a few provinces.
 

nicechinos

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Russia has quite enough easy targets to boost their traditions in combat, IMHO. I often see 5/5/5/2 Russian generals in AI hands in midgame. And haven't you forgot that Russia is a lucky nation?

Sweden stomped an extremely weakened PLC (thanks to Khmelnytsky), and Russia stomped Sweden around 50 years later, mostly due to Peter I tactical skill. And stomped while having twice the number of troops on their own land using scorched earth tactics.

PLC was absolutely stomped (army defeated repeatedly and Warsaw occupied by Swedes) in the very same Northern War which was won by Russia when meatballs were removed outside great European powers. PLC was always weakened due to riots, Russia...insert relevant reason here.... Still Poland gets amazing (top-tier while Russia is second tier) quality buffs. Poland's recovery speed is too, not bad. Was HRE weakened when Sweden went to war with them? Sweden was a beast right until Northern war. Peter the Great was not the most skillful Russian general.
I believe that Russian NIs should include greater naval forcelimit ( since starting is so freaking low; +30%) and galley combat ability (+20%). Because reasons. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Гангутское_сражение
These could be incorporated into last or second to last NI since these are about Petrine reforms anyway and come late in the game. As alternative it could be an event popping up around 1700 and giving Russia these permanent bonuses.
 
Last edited:

solidprice

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As a casual I the colonial thing was made for the 1000+hour guys imo. I chalk it up to the community is more about challenge then trashy blobing fun but lol op france still can:)

but on topic, it's now about getting religious and expansion beating down and eating Chinese and hordes now since hordes are "doomed because reasons".
 

Zak Preston

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PLC was absolutely stomped (army defeated repeatedly and Warsaw occupied by Swedes) in the very same Northern War which was won by Russia when meatballs were removed outside great European powers. PLC was always weakened due to riots, Russia...insert relevant reason here.... Still Poland gets amazing (top-tier while Russia is second tier) quality buffs. Poland's recovery speed is too, not bad. Was HRE weakened when Sweden went to war with them? Sweden was beast right until Northern war. Peter the Great is not the most skillful general.
I believe that Russian NIs should include greater naval forcelimit ( since starting is so freaking low; +30%) and galley combat ability (+20%). Because reasons. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Гангутское_сражение
These could be incorporated into last or second to last NI since these are about Petrine reforms anyway and come late in the game.

If devs asked my opinion about Russian NI's I would say that they should completely remove that huge focelimit and manpower buff and add some mild infantry and cavalry combat ability + morale due to Suvorov's military tactics genius and Cossacks cavalry. As last ideas, for sure.
 

nicechinos

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If devs asked my opinion about Russian NI's I would say that they should completely remove that huge focelimit and manpower buff and add some mild infantry and cavalry combat ability + morale due to Suvorov's military tactics genius and Cossacks cavalry. As last ideas, for sure.

Closer to what I think. Russian military is all about Suvorov, some tribute should be paid. I'd remove force limit (+culture conversion) NI and replace it with infantry/cavalry combat ability (+5%/+10% may be? or is it +10%/+10% dunno) buff. Buffs would still keep Russia well below Poland and other top-tier nations.
On the other hand, puny Austrians (which could not defeat Hungarian rebels without Russian help) get a morale bonus your idea about morale buff makes sense.
 
Last edited:

G_Morgan

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No, I'm quite glad that no longer happens. The problem seems to be the lucky modifier on Poland makes them/Commonwealth an absolute beast that can more often than not crush Russia single-handedly.

So the game is more historic? People have a weird perception of how powerful Russia was historically. It was a paper tiger until Catherine the Great. Certainly in the 1600s it was not remotely an eastern France. Poland and the Scandinavian nations were a perpetual threat to it. The hordes regularly kicked the hell out of them but never enough to destroy the nation.

The strong Russias in this game have been a problem since release. Forming the post Congress of Vienna Russian Empire in 1650 is ridiculous yet even the AI could accomplish this in 1.7.

In terms of difficulty, people have conquered the world as Ryukyu. Nothing about Muscovy is difficult. It is a win in 1444 nation. I don't even think Novgorod is that hard never mind Muscovy.
 

nicechinos

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So the game is more historic? People have a weird perception of how powerful Russia was historically. It was a paper tiger until Catherine the Great. Certainly in the 1600s it was not remotely an eastern France. Poland and the Scandinavian nations were a perpetual threat to it. The hordes regularly kicked the hell out of them but never enough to destroy the nation.

The strong Russias in this game have been a problem since release. Forming the post Congress of Vienna Russian Empire in 1650 is ridiculous yet even the AI could accomplish this in 1.7.


In terms of difficulty, people have conquered the world as Ryukyu. Nothing about Muscovy is difficult. It is a win in 1444 nation. I don't even think Novgorod is that hard never mind Muscovy.

Say what? "The hordes regularly kicked the hell out of them but never enough to destroy the nation." All credibility has been lost after that. Paper tiger that removed Sweden in 1700-1721 that raped PLC and HRE in EU4 timeframe? LOL, don't even get me started. You hit top three ignorant posters in my book. Don't reply to me, I won't reply to you either.
Russia is not even top tier nations by its NIs, why do you mention Eastern France?
 

TheMeInTeam

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Say what? "The hordes regularly kicked the hell out of them but never enough to destroy the nation." All credibility has been lost after that. Paper tiger that removed Sweden in 1700-1721 that raped PLC and HRE in EU4 timeframe? LOL, don't even get me started. You hit top three ignorant posters. Don't reply to me, I won't reply to you either.
Russian is not even top tier nations by its NIs, why do you mention Eastern France?

Trashcovy was regularly paying tribute to the hordes for decades starting this time period. If you're going to prop up the good times, you can't ignore the bad.
 

G_Morgan

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Say what? "The hordes regularly kicked the hell out of them but never enough to destroy the nation." All credibility has been lost after that. Paper tiger that removed Sweden in 1700-1721 that raped PLC and HRE in EU4 timeframe? LOL, don't even get me started. You hit top three ignorant posters in my book. Don't reply to me, I won't reply to you either.
Russia is not even top tier nations by its NIs, why do you mention Eastern France?

What part of the 1720s appeared in the 1600s?

Also swatting Sweden is hardly an achievement. The whole point is Sweden was not a great power. At no time did Sweden become a nation that France or Austria paid any attention to.

When did Russia hammer the HRE? It certainly beat Napoleonic France at the back end of the EU4 timeline.

I have no objection to Russia being powerful by the mid 1750s. That was historic. Russia was an asthmatic weakling in the 1600s but is routinely at post Napoleonic sizes in EU4 by then.
 

nicechinos

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Trashcovy was regularly paying tribute to the hordes for decades starting this time period. If you're going to prop up the good times, you can't ignore the bad.
We had this discussion already and the people with similar stereotypes have backed down on the initial claim. Judging by your writing style you are no history PhD and hardly a person even remotely interested in history. I won't educate you this time. They tend to have elementary schools around your place for that I guess. Get back to your hole (Trashcovy, yeah), fellow. Do not post in topics you have no clue about.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-about-Eastern-European-provinces-in-post-AoW
 
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nicechinos

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Oct 31, 2014
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What part of the 1720s appeared in the 1600s?

Also swatting Sweden is hardly an achievement. The whole point is Sweden was not a great power. At no time did Sweden become a nation that France or Austria paid any attention to.

When did Russia hammer the HRE? It certainly beat Napoleonic France at the back end of the EU4 timeline.

I have no objection to Russia being powerful by the mid 1750s. That was historic. Russia was an asthmatic weakling in the 1600s but is routinely at post Napoleonic sizes in EU4 by then.

"The fall of Kazan had as its primary effect the outright annexation of the Middle Volga. The Bashkirs accepted Ivan IV's authority two years later. In 1556 Ivan annexed the Astrakhan Khanate and destroyed the largest slave market on the river Volga. These conquests complicated the migration of the aggressive nomadic hordes from Asia to Europe through Volga. As a result of the Kazan campaigns, Muscovy was transformed into the multinational and multi-faith state of Russia. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible#Conquest_of_Kazan_and_Astrakhan

The year was 1556. You said that "The hordes regularly kicked the hell out of them but never enough to destroy the nation."

"Sweden.... that raped PLC and HRE in EU4 timeframe" Not sure if it was clear earlier.

"Also swatting Sweden is hardly an achievement. The whole point is Sweden was not a great power." Mate, that's not even funny. Wiki knows about this stuff. Pdx knows about this stuff. AOW is about this stuff. Ok, another wiki quote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
"From 1630 to 1634, Swedish-led armies drove the Catholic forces back, regaining much of the lost Protestant territory. During his campaign he managed to conquer half of the Imperial kingdoms, making Sweden the continental leader of Protestantism until the Swedish Empire ended in 1721."

Any further objections to the case?
 
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