No point playing Russia anymore

[nicechinos]

No way, it's one of the best bonuses within the whole set, I'd put it right after tech cost reduction and Sudebnik. Accepted culture threshold is of 0 use for Russia - who are you going to accept now after the Tartar were split into several entities? Besides, it's unique.

Prussians and Polish. I never spend Diplo on culture converting.

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

Yeah, sure!!!
Westernized Ethiopia, Alodia, Tunicia (was), Japan, Manchu, Russia, Lithuania, Hungary (was), Astrakhan and a whole bunch of American natives. All are in Western tech group ATM. Ironman game, no cheating.

Why is Perm still alive? Does the AI make it a march from day 1 instead of integrating it?

 

[nicechinos]

ONLY in true faith provinces, though, which tend to not have revolt issues to begin with except in exceptional circumstances. I do agree Orthodox would be fairly powerful if Patriarch authority applied to all owned provinces, but it does not.



You are wrong. Russia's ideas are mostly focused on quantity but, ever since discipline and combat power was fixed quality has always been superior to quantity and the above three have quality in spades. While Russia would probably be better than Sweden on normal circumstances Sweden also gets a ton of permanent event modifiers which tips the scales back towards Sweden. Infact, Sweden's troops, after event modifiers, are cheaper than Russia's troops. Forcelimits are kind of semi-worthless because they stop being relevant once you blob beyond a certain size.

Couldn't agree more. Once you eat Novgorod, Tver, Ruhenian and Byelorussian parts of PLC (most of it), which all can be done in 30-40 years from the start you can field an army of at least 50. One doesn't not need more at this stage of the game. Besides Muscovy should have at least couple of decent sized vassals (usually Kazan for CB and steppe conquests and the whole Finland) which gives an overall FL of 70-80. FL idea gives +50% FL which is utter rubbish due to garbage artillery until mid-game. So Russia could go well without this idea and could get some quality idea even if moderate one.

 

[nicechinos]

Autonomy is a weakness that afflicts all nations, as such its not something that specifically targets russia. I'd say the autonomy proves the biggest problem for all humongous nations, of which Russia is one of. Throughout most of history Russia has been incredibly de-centralized for that very reason, a centralized and stable Russia would have proven an unbeatable foe to most of the world stage. And those few times the country 'has' pulled together and overcome internal issues they haven't really had a foe they weren't able to beat down.

Russias biggest problems are during peacetime. It doesn't have many during war.

I think Autonomy is the best damned way of showcasing the decentralized Russia and a player can have a great deal of entertainment overcoming the shortcomings of your nations bureaucracy.

That and I think its awesome that the big blobs can no longer expand unhindered. Russia now wont just be able to go in and snatch Ming and then all of Asia like they did in my games. They actually face Horde rebels as they conquer them, rebels that actually pose a threat now rather than just be annoyances you can remove with the click of a button said click now actually gives them the independance they're asking for (Or semi-independence)

It also mostly prevents France from conquering the entire holy roman empire and spain within a few hundred years and then holding them without issue.

I say mostly because far as I've seen in my post-patch games France is still going to be France.

Mmm? Conquest is much easier for Muscovy in 1.8 due to local autonomy and transfers of sieges.

 

[DicRoNero]

Prussians and Polish. I never spend Diplo on culture converting.

GL keeping them accepted long enough for it to matter. And if this is not a long-lasting effect, then you only really need it for the ease of religious conversion - something you probably need in the East, not in the West.

 

[nicechinos]

GL keeping them accepted long enough for it to matter. And if this is not a long-lasting effect, then you only really need it for the ease of religious conversion - something you probably need in the East, not in the West.

I do like naval stuff so I never spend precious diplo on anything except tech and diplo annexations. I also came to a conclusion that Muscovy can do very well without humanist/religious by taking all missionary strength decisions and being defender of faith. A couple of religious centers are also nice. Muscovy does have tons of troops mid game easing revolt risks.

 

[ChildeR]

ONLY in true faith provinces, though, which tend to not have revolt issues to begin with except in exceptional circumstances.

Not really the case in 1.8. Unrest reduction in true faith provinces allows painless LA reduction.

 

[Emiliana]

The only real problem I see with conquering same culture has been that those stupid rebels that spawn are friendly to me. Hey Bedouin Oman just conquered us Bedouins from Yemen, we want to defect to Yemen, but since we're Bedouin we'll just sit here for the next hundred years or so doing nothing.

This is a glitch that is supposed to be fixed, not something done with intent.

And LA makes russia have to expand smarter now. Slow and steady, like reality, instead of annexing in swathes. Hopefully it tempers russian game so that people learn not to use all of their admin tech on coring and fall behind in tech and ideas to far.

 

[nicechinos]

I'll try to keep this short, firstly I do like the new local auto feature. However it is fundamentally flawed as Russia. When you first conquer Novgorod it makes completely ZERO sense to have local auto on provinces that are the same culture and religion as you. The penalties are way to harsh one percent minus goods,manpower and tax. I have about 600h in Eu4 so I consider myself to be experienced and can usually form russia (bordering german states to bearing sea at around `1640) pre patch and enjoy mostly playing it in competitive multiplayer. However the local auto penalties are ridiculous, surely it makes no sense to have it on your own culture provs but don't get me started on the tartar ones. I had to keep my auto on a stable 60-70 percent at the start of the game to prevent constant tartar nationalists. In addition to that it's near impossible to get the tartars to be accepted now because of how high your local auto has to be. For example, that kasimov prov muscovy starts with.

non accepted culture -33%
heathen religion - 25% (or is it 33?)
and the 60% local auto it starts with which is -60% on everything


so I was essentially making 0 gold from all my tartar provs......
Maybe paradox should test their shit before they implement it into the game.

My suggestionn have no local auto penalties for provs that are your culture (and maybe religion)

Because, as it stands this whole local auto + non accepted culture + heathen religion penalty is silly

/rant over

Foul language removed - Seelmeister

Russian states are much easier to play now due to easier vassal blobbing and LA, which really helps to manage expansion risks. However, you may have a point about wrong religion/ culture economic maluses. It's a good idea to incorporate them into even higher RR but to get rid of the economic effects. It would be good to be able to set a minimum LA in this case.

 

[nicechinos]

This is a glitch that is supposed to be fixed, not something done with intent.

And LA makes russia have to expand smarter now. Slow and steady, like reality, instead of annexing in swathes. Hopefully it tempers russian game so that people learn not to use all of their admin tech on coring and fall behind in tech and ideas to far.

I disagree with that. In 1.7 one had to be very picky because there were no effective RR reduction managements tools and revolts could be consecutive which was punishing. 1.8 has LA which allows to conquer almost anything. Blobbing made easier.

 

[nicechinos]

GL keeping them accepted long enough for it to matter. And if this is not a long-lasting effect, then you only really need it for the ease of religious conversion - something you probably need in the East, not in the West.

I generally agree with you but close East is mostly low tax based. Danzig, Ostpreussen, Warshawa and Krakow are not. The malus is significant. Also missionary strength decisions results in lower tolerans towards other Christians and hence need for faster conversions.

 

[Denkt]

Muscovy ideas are not the best by far. It lacks any quality military ideas except for Table of Ranks (+0.5 army tradition; Naxos, Karaman and Cypurs all get +1).
It has useless culture conversion cost (which should be accepted culture threshold) and production efficiency. Two last ideas are arguably strong.
Poland is an early target and coupled with Lithuania, it's lucky and it's superpower.

Russia can still get 30% infantry/cavalry/artillery power and not be that behind in discipline while having such quantity advantage that is rediculus.
You can with ease have millions of soldiers in your army which is harder for other nations.
Russia will have a larger army with a larger manpower pool, if you rotate stacks in battle you will hit their weakened units with your fresh ones who do full damage and have full moral.
Quantity allow you to outlast the enemy, which is why Russian ideas are so strong.

Couldn't agree more. Once you eat Novgorod, Tver, Ruhenian and Byelorussian parts of PLC (most of it), which all can be done in 30-40 years from the start you can field an army of at least 50. One doesn't not need more at this stage of the game. Besides Muscovy should have at least couple of decent sized vassals (usually Kazan for CB and steppe conquests and the whole Finland) which gives an overall FL of 70-80. FL idea gives +50% FL which is utter rubbish due to garbage artillery until mid-game. So Russia could go well without this idea and could get some quality idea even if moderate one.

Up your army with quite a few 100s of units it will make the gamar easier like quality also does.

 

[Emiliana]

but the cost in coring, usually people would pay it. and then fall behind, where now, hopefully, they realise the damages of over extention and war exhaustion, and LA encourages them to be even more careful. I have watched people play, a lot more than I have played myself, concerning russia.

 

[Novacat]

Russia can still get 30% infantry/cavalry/artillery power and not be that behind in discipline while having such quantity advantage that is rediculus.

Uh? Quality only gives 10% Infantry/cavalry/artillery power. Quality + Offensive only gives 10% Discipline. Prussia has 7.5% Discipline and 20% infantry power before picking ideas. Ottomans has 15% Discipline, 20% infantry power, and 15% Cavalry power before picking ideas. Quantity gives 50% Manpower and 50% Forcelimits, if those countries really needed them. Prussia also gets 100% army tradition without decay easily which is impossible for any other country to get without policies.

You can with ease have millions of soldiers in your army which is harder for other nations.
Russia will have a larger army with a larger manpower pool, if you rotate stacks in battle you will hit their weakened units with your fresh ones who do full damage and have full moral.
Quantity allow you to outlast the enemy, which is why Russian ideas are so strong.

Up until your doomstacks are decimated by Prussian/Ottoman armies while recieving few losses.

 

[GabbyDieJaeger]

Honestly, complaining about Russia being hard to play is a bit silly, and saying they're "pointless" or "ruined" is just a load of nonsense.
However, I would really like to see Russia buffed somehow, because in 1.8 AI Russia seems to under-perform a lot.

 

[Novacat]

However, I would really like to see Russia buffed somehow, because in 1.8 AI Russia seems to under-perform a lot.

What? Just because they are no longer intoing China and India?

 

[GabbyDieJaeger]

What? Just because they are no longer intoing China and India?

No, I'm quite glad that no longer happens. The problem seems to be the lucky modifier on Poland makes them/Commonwealth an absolute beast that can more often than not crush Russia single-handedly.

 

[Denkt]

Uh? Quality only gives 10% Infantry/cavalry/artillery power. Quality + Offensive only gives 10% Discipline. Prussia has 7.5% Discipline and 20% infantry power before picking ideas. Ottomans has 15% Discipline, 20% infantry power, and 15% Cavalry power before picking ideas. Quantity gives 50% Manpower and 50% Forcelimits, if those countries really needed them. Prussia also gets 100% army tradition without decay easily which is impossible for any other country to get without policies.

With policies you can get 30% power.
If you are at war at all time you can easly have 100% millitary tradition anyway.
Then we are also only talking about military parts of the ideas, not the facts that Russia do get a free colonist or one of the best tech cost reducing idea that it shares with like two other countries.

 

[lolciokuba]

No, I'm quite glad that no longer happens. The problem seems to be the lucky modifier on Poland makes them/Commonwealth an absolute beast that can more often than not crush Russia single-handedly.

Well not to say that the game should follow historical determinism but for a long the PLC had the upper hand over the Tsar and the rest of the baltics. Therefore it should be possible for them in the game to resist or expand into Russia.

 

[MiniaAr]

How would you handle Novgorod as Muscowy in 1.8 now?
DOW as soon as troops are in place to stack wipe the Novgorodian stack (with Pskovian help) and send 1k mercenary stacks to siege northern provinces while the rest is carpet sieged? (no AI sorties in sight).
In the peace deal, release Finland (to latter vassalise and give march status), and give provinces to Pskov/Yaroslav for them to core? Then in a second war, annex everything and give to vassals again, start annexing those?

Yaroslav might put a claim on Tver so you should declare with your vassal CB once that happens and let them annex, right?

Finally, Kazan is vassalisable in one war and then Tribal Feud should be used (and abused) to get Horde lands (from Uzbek/Nogai/GH), is that correct? What about the gold mine next to Sibir lands? Is this advisable to get as soon as possible (and carve a path to it)?

Expansion still looks ok as a first idea group, while DIP points are used to annex vassals and MIL points to keep up in tech. Do you pick something else?