no naval attrition?

[Registered]

Another thing, fleets suffering attrition do not move back to port, there is ot even a message untill they start sinking. I had a fleet sitting off Gibraltar (tyhinking they would not suffer attrition in my own waters) and suddenly got a message that one of my ships had sunk. A nasty surprise.

 

[Don E]

Naval Attrition:

Now works differently in EU3 than it did in EU2. You'll notice that the weather effects and slow monthly attrition gain are gone. Instead, each time you enter a new sea zone or are in one at month end, there's a random chance that each of the ships in your fleet will suffer attrition damage. IIRC in the demo the chances range from a few percent in coastal waters to about 10% in open ocean. If a ship fails the "die roll" it will lose 25% of its strength, so it can survive 4 such hits before sinking. To repair damage, go to a friendly port and wait a while (iirc monthly repairs is around 5% or 10% in the demo).

This will be tweaked somewhat in the release version and future patches to get the balance to the intended values (extremely hard to get exactly the right values considering the many variable, but we're much closer now than we were).


Naval Exploration:

In the demo it's too fast (not sure if a value got transposed somewhere incorrectly or if something else is at play) but will be slower in the release version. A good leader (naval explorer) will speed up the process somewhat. Note that you gain naval tradition when exploring which you might want to use to hire even better explorers (the same applies to land tradition being gained when roaming through terra incognita with conquistadors).


Map Spread:

In the demo version the spread of maps is a bit faster than intended, and is further complicated by the mechanism that governs it. It's been severely tweaked in subsequent builds. In the final gold release the fastest you'll get someone else's map is 25 years after its original discovery. (Also note that you can no longer trade maps as a diplo option, nor do you get another country's maps when you capture its capital).

Looks like there are some more differences to the demo other than the time span

While the inability to swap maps might not be the most realistic, I think it will prevent a lot of gamey play. Is it still possible to get maps from winning sea battles though?

 

[unmerged(514)]

@ MrT :


All good news!

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Looks like there are some more differences to the demo other than the time span

While the inability to swap maps might not be the most realistic, I think it will prevent a lot of gamey play. Is it still possible to get maps from winning sea battles though?

Well, as always there is the time issue between when things have to be finished for things like the demo build or gold master compared to when they actually appear, so we're always busily working at further improvements even though the other things are "final". That's why there is almost always a patch available very close to release date to give you all the tweaks and such that we've made since those other deadlines.


Yeah...map swaping felt a bit too gamey and exploitive in EU2 (to me anyway, and presume Johan shared the opinion since he changed it) so better to nix it.

There is no "hard" way to gain maps (capturing/sinking ships, sieges, occupation, etc.) so map gain is fundamentally a function of exploration and time. I find that my strategy for being a colonial power has changed quite a bit for EU3: I don't go out and discover more than I can colonise in the period of time I'll have between discovering it and my maps spreading to others. This is possible because I can hire new explorers and conquistadors at my leisure instead of having to wait for my predetermined historical ones (or occasional random one) from EU2. That's somewhat more realistic of the era too.

There are a number of things that were "standard practice" (strategies) in EU2 that will actually not help you and even occasionally hinder you in EU3. In some respects, someone who's new to the series might find some aspects of optimising strategy easier than vets, since they won't have to overcome old habits that are now "bad" for EU3.

 

[Don E]

There is no "hard" way to gain maps (capturing/sinking ships, sieges, occupation, etc.) so map gain is fundamentally a function of exploration and time. I find that my strategy for being a colonial power has changed quite a bit for EU3: I don't go out and discover more than I can colonise in the period of time I'll have between discovering it and my maps spreading to others. This is possible because I can hire new explorers and conquistadors at my leisure instead of having to wait for my predetermined historical ones (or occasional random one) from EU2. That's somewhat more realistic of the era too.

It might be that one want to continue exploring for as long as the explorer one promoted is around, simply to increase the naval tradition. ALternatively one could 'save' some exploration if one think one need greater naval tradition at some later stage. I haven't yet got a feel for how important this aspect is for naval tradition, but both look slightly gamey to me. Guess it is hard to avoid gamey tactics in any game

 

[danedwardsuk]

That's why there is almost always a patch available very close to release date to give you all the tweaks and such that we've made since those other deadlines.

Oooh is that a hint?

 

[Reveilled]

Naval Exploration:

In the demo it's too fast (not sure if a value got transposed somewhere incorrectly or if something else is at play) but will be slower in the release version. A good leader (naval explorer) will speed up the process somewhat. Note that you gain naval tradition when exploring which you might want to use to hire even better explorers (the same applies to land tradition being gained when roaming through terra incognita with conquistadors).

Aww.

Will it still be possible to get Columbus to the Carribean in one trip? I was overjoyed I could do that in the demo, since it was how it historically happened.

 

[EnderV]

First, thank you thank you thank you for clearing the things up with the demo/release difference. Did I thank you yet?

I don't go out and discover more than I can colonise in the period of time I'll have between discovering it and my maps spreading to others.

A very sensible strategy, and a good new addition I think!
V

 

[Laffertytig]

i just gave it another try to see how long the voyage took. from spain, round the entire caribbean, up the eastern us coast to canada and back to spain took 14 months with the loss of 1 ship albeit the rest were in pretty bad shape. in EU2 it wouldve easily taken 30-40 years to explore all that due to attrition rules but its just taken me 14 months.

just curious to know why it was changed? does the AI use the same rules now maybe this is the reason cos in EU2 AI didnt suffer attrition.

hopefully as u said once patches are released the game will feel more balanced

 

[EUnderhill]

There is no "hard" way to gain maps (capturing/sinking ships, sieges, occupation, etc.) so map gain is fundamentally a function of exploration and time. I find that my strategy for being a colonial power has changed quite a bit for EU3: I don't go out and discover more than I can colonise in the period of time I'll have between discovering it and my maps spreading to others. This is possible because I can hire new explorers and conquistadors at my leisure instead of having to wait for my predetermined historical ones (or occasional random one) from EU2. That's somewhat more realistic of the era too. QUOTE]

Doews this mean that some adjustments ought be made in the setup files so that one does not start the game knowing too much for one's own good?

 

[Nikolai]

Regarding the tradition gain by exploring: I played as England today, and explored en masse. I got nearly 100% naval tradition in no time, but even after exploring most of NA, I had no land tradition. Also, when I waged war on the continent, the best I got in land tradition after taking on Autria three times, was 4% or 5% in the end of each war. Does that sound buggy, or am I missing something?

 

[TheLand]

On the naval model:

I'm finding nice things in the units files. PDox went for a cowardly (or possibly continental) spelling of xebec, but I'll let them off, since they included this marginally relevant but very funky naval unit in the first place.

I like the variety of warships, and in particular the concept of a 'base cannons' variable... if I find that there are policy/advisor/idea choices that modifiy the base cannons variable for particular navies, I will swoon....

 

[Lasse Nielsen]

nice to her MrT I got a little scared about the exploration speed

 

[unmerged(17138)]

Yeah...map swaping felt a bit too gamey and exploitive in EU2 (to me anyway, and presume Johan shared the opinion since he changed it) so better to nix it.

There is no "hard" way to gain maps (capturing/sinking ships, sieges, occupation, etc.) so map gain is fundamentally a function of exploration and time. I find that my strategy for being a colonial power has changed quite a bit for EU3: I don't go out and discover more than I can colonise in the period of time I'll have between discovering it and my maps spreading to others. This is possible because I can hire new explorers and conquistadors at my leisure instead of having to wait for my predetermined historical ones (or occasional random one) from EU2. That's somewhat more realistic of the era too.

Interesting strategy and probably accurate for europeans .. how would it apply to non-europeans (who have different starting maps) though? Would map spread also apply to them?

 

[Strager]

Well i'm glad to hear that things are still being tweaked. My sail around the world in a year (1492-93) while funny, is defiantly a game breaker The other side of the coin to this i've found a few times is troop loading. Ships shouldnt take any attrition when in a seazone outside of one of your cities - the reason for this is it often takes a month or so for a unit to board a ship... kinda nutty to have a transport sitting offshore being loaded up and have it sink on you :\

But overall if things are as good a 'T says ... great job.... otherwise I'll be sad....

 

[Jodien]

MrT, is this demo/release difference also true for the tech researchs? It also seems to level up so fast. I was gaining new levels in every tech each year.

 

[kaspar42]

That clearly illustrates the problem. Two years at sea and the fleet still intact???

Actually I think it would be a lot better if there was zero naval attrition in sea zones with a friendly port. It would greatly reduce the micromanagement in dealing with pirates, and for realism, it could just be assumed that individual ships were constantly resupplied and refittet from the port. As it would be in real life.

 

[Jodien]

Aww.

Will it still be possible to get Columbus to the Carribean in one trip? I was overjoyed I could do that in the demo, since it was how it historically happened.

Well, even with a good explorer like Columbus, the fleet should barely make the way to the first Carribean island and back home. The game will begin in 1453, so the colonizers should fail to discover the new world for at least a couple of decades.

 

[Strager]

Looks like our prayers were answered- this was added in 1.1

- There is no longer attrition when in home waters.
- Attrition at open sea is now harsher.
- There is no longer accumulates at-sea attrition after naval tech 20.
- Tweaked pirate apperance distribution.