No more DLC until bug an issue fix

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goodcigar

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I think no more DLC should be release until many bug and other issue is fix. There are so many bug and issues with the game right now. I read so many bug and other issue post on forum. I think they need a whole bug and issue fix team. Because there so many. It make me not want to play when there so many problem.
 
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Kadanz

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goodluck. for years we've been threatening to not buy dlc until the AI has been fixed. It's still one of the most braindead implementations in the game. HoI 4 is the lowest priority of games in the paradox catalogue. It's the neglected child sort of speak. We'll never see a 5th itteration anytime soon. Quote me on this; I dare you.
 
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grommile

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goodluck. for years we've been threatening to not buy dlc until the AI has been fixed.
People have been saying that about several of Paradox's games for several years.
It's still one of the most braindead implementations in the game. HoI 4 is the lowest priority of games in the paradox catalogue.
It is seven years since the Victoria franchise received its last paid update, and four years since it received its last official patch (which spent a year before that as a public beta).
It's the neglected child sort of speak. We'll never see a 5th itteration anytime soon. Quote me on this; I dare you.
The time from the release of CK2 to the release of CK3 was eight and a half years.

The time from the last CK2 DLC to CK3's release was two years, with the release announcement (and transition of CK2's base game to being F2P) being about halfway through that period.

HoI4 has only been on the market for four and a half years, and still has at least one more DLC not yet delivered, so saying we won't see HoI5 any time soon is like saying the sun will rise tomorrow: true, but obvious.
 
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Bunnytob

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Yeah.
If the past is anything to go by, and with Hydra introducing as many bugs as it fixed, I doubt this game will ever get fully bugfixed until the time the copyright on it expires and someone rips the source code.
That being said, most of the major and intermediary bugs in patches do get fixed in the larger updates (it's just that the same amount seem to be introduced).
 
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bitmode

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I think they need a whole bug and issue fix team. Because there so many. It make me not want to play when there so many problem.
Paradox' stockholders don't care one bit if you want to play the game. They are quite happy with how profitable the company is. They will give and tell you as little as they possibly can. The only solution is to warn/inform your fellow gamers (without flaming) about the state of the game. The development will not change course unless their bottom line is affected.
 
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i wish.

Hoi4 has needed a major bug fixing update for a few dlcs now.
the current state of HOI4 is the worst its ever been. at least from my perspective. There are so many bugs, it feels like im playing a early access title. Yet we all know we are just going to get more dlc to line the pockets of the stockholders. Then again maybe we should give paradox the benefit of the doubt, Its not like any of the dlcs so far have any features that shouldve been in the base game, that were definitely not cut out just to milk more money from the community. That would never happen. :confused:
 
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Kazakk

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I would prefer this to happen, but I know it won't. I've come to the conclusion that their staff is, unfortunately, undermanned, and being pushed to launch more and more DLCs. Just look at the infinite-PP exploit as Turkey. You literally have to play the game for 5 minutes to find this big exploit which is easily fixed. Yet, even during the entirety of the beta patch, nothing happened. They are so undermanned that they need to rely on us players to even report them the bugs, even the obvious ones. I am grateful to the devs, but there will be consequences of pushing a small team through.

And I believe this is a terrible decision on the part of their head of business. It may look like they will profit more by extorting us players with rushed DLCs, which in turn brings more and more bugs. However in the long term it will hurt the confidence of their playerbase. If any serious company raises up and becomes a real competition, it'll hurt them significantly if their reputation is damaged.
 
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Vlad123

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I would prefer this to happen, but I know it won't. I've come to the conclusion that their staff is, unfortunately, undermanned, and being pushed to launch more and more DLCs. Just look at the infinite-PP exploit as Turkey. You literally have to play the game for 5 minutes to find this big exploit which is easily fixed. Yet, even during the entirety of the beta patch, nothing happened. They are so undermanned that they need to rely on us players to even report them the bugs, even the obvious ones. I am grateful to the devs, but there will be consequences of pushing a small team through.

And I believe this is a terrible decision on the part of their head of business. It may look like they will profit more by extorting us players with rushed DLCs, which in turn brings more and more bugs. However in the long term it will hurt the confidence of their playerbase. If any serious company raises up and becomes a real competition, it'll hurt them significantly if their reputation is damaged.
In one of my stories, a company lifts itself up (out of nowhere) and defeats a company that "gloated" about the fact that it was the only one who played games like this and could do as it pleased. In the end, this small company causes the big company to go bankrupt, which is bought by the small one for "a loaf of bread". I want to remember the memes of when Age of Civilization II came out where panic broke out in paradox. Fortunately for Paradox then that project was abandoned, but if a company comes out tomorrow that does not abandon its promising game ... for paradox there is big trouble.
 
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grommile

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Fortunately for Paradox then that project was abandoned, but if a company comes out tomorrow that does not abandon its promising game ... for paradox there is big trouble.
The precise combination of fundamental features (real-time with pause, no tactics phase, large scope) that Paradox's games have is not a combination many other companies have been interested in exploring, and the ones that have explored it haven't usually produced significantly better results than Paradox.

Like, the vast majority of 4X games, whether space or planetary, are turn-based (which is a big part of why I've largely dropped the genre; fact is, I don't enjoy turn-based 4X games). Stellaris isn't unique among space 4X games for being real-time-with-pause – I've certainly played at least one other – but it's certainly unusual.

Similiarly, WW2 strategy games tend to be very grognardy turn-based games.
 
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Vlad123

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The precise combination of fundamental features (real-time with pause, no tactics phase, large scope) that Paradox's games have is not a combination many other companies have been interested in exploring, and the ones that have explored it haven't usually produced significantly better results than Paradox.

Like, the vast majority of 4X games, whether space or planetary, are turn-based (which is a big part of why I've largely dropped the genre; fact is, I don't enjoy turn-based 4X games). Stellaris isn't unique among space 4X games for being real-time-with-pause – I've certainly played at least one other – but it's certainly unusual.

Similiarly, WW2 strategy games tend to be very grognardy turn-based games.
Yes, yes! I can understand. But if a company with a beautiful and strong idea takes the field and manages its first game well. PDX will have water in the throat ... in my opinion the (qualitative) decline of paradox games started when it became a joint stock company. I don't know if you can go back once if it went public ... but it would be nice if PDX were either forced to revise its plans or get out of the market (as a stock market) to get back on track.
 
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Harin

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Competing against a well financed, successful company is extremely difficult. For a new competitor, beating them with better ideas is one of the hardest things to do, since the successful company is years, decades, ahead in that specific thinking space. They are successful because they have already beaten previous competition by trying out and vetting existing ideas. They are not rookies. They are the last man standing. They know what ideas are financially feasible, but more importantly they know many ideas that are money sinks and dead ends. The new company does not and those money sinks are financial land mines they must navigate around or die an early death. The odds are against them as there are many bad ideas for each good one.

Winning in this environment is sometimes done through an overwhelming technological advantage. Tech is what makes industries leap forward, but usually it is the existing winners that get the tech first, as inventors or purchasing the inventing company, and use it to strengthen their dominance. That is not always the case. Microsoft and Apple are both examples for those of us who remember when they were nobodies. Tech is one of the strongest methods of bringing down the current winners in an industry, but that level of tech is rare. A tech advantage in this game could be everything from UI, optimization of computing, AI, upgrade methods, more assessible modding, better visuals, player aids, better MP, hiring away vital brain capital from the competitor, etc... Everything that makes things easier and better without raising costs is what a tech could be considered in a business sense.

*EDIT: As @Vlad123 said below, Game Play is paramount to a game. The expertise to create it is a level of tech, in the sense I use it here, and cannot be ignored by those who would compete.

Winning against the most successful company in an industry can occur when the winning company has misinterpreted what made it successful and sticks to a plan that does not make customers happy. Not making customers happy eventually leads to making customers unhappy. It is not easy for a successful company to see this change as they are the winning company and their revenue grows, since there is no other competition. I am not saying this is happening to Paradox today, I am just saying this scenario exists and is a threat.

Such a scenario happened many years ago between two companies called Sony and Blizzard. Sony ran the most successful MMORPG in the world called Everquest. Nothing else compared with Everquest, but over time the players wanted fixes and changes to the game. Sony practically coined the term, "Working as intended" while denying these requests. Instead, Sony chose to produce new content while making very few changes to the base game play.

Blizzard, seeing the success of Everquest, decided to build its own MMORPG. Blizzard ran into the first and second problems above. Everquest already had the best idea and the technology did not exist to beat Sony through a leap above. Blizzard developers, realizing their current efforts would not work, started monitoring the forums of Everquest looking for insights. Instead of insights they found the forums were full of requests for features that were being shut down with the dreaded "Working as intended" response and players unhappy replies. Players even revolted in game, by staging protests in the game world, involving hundreds of players at a time. A few years later Blizzard launched World of Warcraft.

For those who played Everquest, it was obvious that World of Warcraft was a very close knock-off of Everquest. The commands in the game were identical, down to the shortcuts, the player communications were identical, the UI was almost identical, the game world was very much alike, the game play was so close that an Everquest player did not require a minute to learn how to play World of Warcraft. I know, I experienced all of it. Even today I wonder how Blizzard did not get sued to bankruptcy, but obviously they covered their legal flanks well.

World of Warcraft quickly dethroned Everquest and eventually eclipsed its player base by, I do not think I am exaggerating, by a factor of twenty or more.

So, there are ways HOI4 could lose to competition, but the advantage is with Paradox. They almost have to give away their leadership by getting behind in tech or disregarding customer wants to a negligent degree, like Sony did. That is a tall order, indeed, especially in the immediate future.
 
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Vlad123

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Competing against a well financed, successful company is extremely difficult. For a new competitor, beating them with better ideas is one of the hardest things to do, since the successful company is years, decades, ahead in that specific thinking space. They are successful because they have already beaten previous competition by trying out and vetting existing ideas. They are not rookies. They are the last man standing. They know what ideas are financially feasible, but more importantly they know many ideas that are money sinks and dead ends. The new company does not and those money sinks are financial land mines they must navigate around or die an early death. The odds are against them as there are many bad ideas for each good one.

Winning in this environment is sometimes done through an overwhelming technological advantage. Tech is what makes industries leap forward, but usually it is the existing winners that get the tech first, as inventors or purchasing the inventing company, and use it to strengthen their dominance. That is not always the case. Microsoft and Apple are both examples for those of us who remember when they were nobodies. Tech is one of the strongest methods of bringing down the current winners in an industry, but that level of tech is rare. A tech advantage in this game could be everything from UI, optimization of computing, AI, upgrade methods, more assessible modding, better visuals, player aids, better MP, hiring away vital brain capital from the competitor, etc... Everything that makes things easier and better without raising costs is what a tech could be considered in a business sense.

Winning against the most successful company in an industry can occur when the winning company has misinterpreted what made it successful and sticks to a plan that does not make customers happy. Not making customers happy eventually leads to making customers unhappy. It is not easy for a successful company to see this change as they are the winning company and their revenue grows, since there is no other competition. I am not saying this is happening to Paradox today, I am just saying this scenario exists and is a threat.

Such a scenario happened many years ago between two companies called Sony and Blizzard. Sony ran the most successful MMORPG in the world called Everquest. Nothing else compared with Everquest, but over time the players wanted fixes and changes to the game. Sony practically coined the term, "Working as intended" while denying these requests. Instead, Sony chose to produce new content while making very few changes to the base game play.

Blizzard, seeing the success of Everquest, decided to build its own MMORPG. Blizzard ran into the first and second problems above. Everquest already had the best idea and the technology did not exist to beat Sony through a leap above. Blizzard developers, realizing their current efforts would not work, started monitoring the forums of Everquest looking for insights. Instead of insights they found the forums were full of requests for features that were being shut down with the dreaded "Working as intended" response and players unhappy replies. Players even revolted in game, by staging protests in the game world, involving hundreds of players at a time. A few years later Blizzard launched World of Warcraft.

For those who played Everquest, it was obvious that World of Warcraft was a very close knock-off of Everquest. The commands in the game were identical, down to the shortcuts, the player communications were identical, the UI was almost identical, the game world was very much alike, the game play was so close that an Everquest player did not require a minute to learn how to play World of Warcraft. I know, I experienced all of it. Even today I wonder how Blizzard did not get sued to bankruptcy, but obviously they covered their legal flanks well.

World of Warcraft quickly dethroned Everquest and eventually eclipsed its player base by, I do not think I am exaggerating, by a factor of twenty or more.

So, there are ways HOI4 could lose to competition, but the advantage is with Paradox. They almost have to give away their leadership by getting behind in tech or disregarding customer wants to a negligent degree, like Sony did. That is a tall order, indeed, especially in the immediate future.
Tecnologically? Yes, but remember...in a game the most important thing are the game play! A player play a game like Rimworld(2D basic graphically) but VERY DEEP with gameplay...and Rimworld are sell cheampions!
 
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Harin

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Tecnologically? Yes, but remember...in a game the most important thing are the game play! A player play a game like Rimworld(2D basic graphically) but VERY DEEP with gameplay...and Rimworld are sell cheampions!

I totally agree with you, @Vlad123. Gameplay is the golden ring every developer reaches for. Without it, there is no game.

I used the term "tech" in a very broad business sense and I should have mentioned gameplay as a part of it. In business there is a magic that makes something easier and better, but without costing more. Since magic is not a professional term, tech becomes the filler. The level of expertise to create a game with gameplay would be considered tech in my post. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I am editing my post to correct it.
 

Vlad123

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I totally agree with you, @Vlad123. Gameplay is the golden ring every developer reaches for. Without it, there is no game.

I used the term "tech" in a very broad business sense and I should have mentioned gameplay as a part of it. In business there is a magic that makes something easier and better, but without costing more. Since magic is not a professional term, tech becomes the filler. The level of expertise to create a game with gameplay would be considered tech in my post. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I am editing my post to correct it.
I add one thing: I have seen many games that could have been successful that failed because "badly managed". But I have "cut my teeth" seeing the failures of many games ... so I already know how to move to avoid bullets (like Neo in the matrix), the only thing I lack is the funds to create the game. And I already know it will almost certainly be a success. Because this game has already had it in the past but between horrible management + arrogant and presumptuous community that 1) did not want to donate and 2) did not even want to pay if there was a shop (it was an MMO but with a few changes it could become a beautiful game at HOI) failed. Because if as a "customer" you have someone who does not want to pay a cent ... sometimes there is no luck in the success of some ideas, but if they fail, it does not mean that they are valid. Indeed, maybe they are very valid ... only, like a seed they did not fall into the right soil.
 
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Harin

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I add one thing: I have seen many games that could have been successful that failed because "badly managed". But I have "cut my teeth" seeing the failures of many games ... so I already know how to move to avoid bullets (like Neo in the matrix), the only thing I lack is the funds to create the game. And I already know it will almost certainly be a success. Because this game has already had it in the past but between horrible management + arrogant and presumptuous community that 1) did not want to donate and 2) did not even want to pay if there was a shop (it was an MMO but with a few changes it could become a beautiful game at HOI) failed. Because if as a "customer" you have someone who does not want to pay a cent ... sometimes there is no luck in the success of some ideas, but if they fail, it does not mean that they are valid. Indeed, maybe they are very valid ... only, like a seed they did not fall into the right soil.

Sadly, that is so true. There are better methods for so many things in life, but the best has no guarantee of being produced, let alone become a success. Luck, financing, access to enough customers, distribution, cliques, strength of competition, and dozens of other obstacles out of control of the person with a good idea stand in the way.
 

Vlad123

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Feb 7, 2015
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Sadly, that is so true. There are better methods for so many things in life, but the best has no guarantee of being produced, let alone become a success. Luck, financing, access to enough customers, distribution, cliques, strength of competition, and dozens of other obstacles out of control of the person with a good idea stand in the way.
Yes, but look at rimworld. If you happen to have a good community that spreads the word ... that's it. Minecraft? spread the word! All the good indie games have spread by word of mouth!
 
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Zeeth

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I think no more DLC should be release until many bug and other issue is fix. There are so many bug and issues with the game right now. I read so many bug and other issue post on forum. I think they need a whole bug and issue fix team. Because there so many. It make me not want to play when there so many problem.
I agree. Try to play communist British Raj. See what happens.
Literally broken.
 

lonewolf371

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Well, the recent DLC is the first one I haven't gotten for awhile. I'm watching the next one, seeing if they on net fix bugs. I know it's not easy making a game, but some other studios are killing it right now, and with my job I only have so much time to game. I'd rather fight my game opponent, not the game itself.
 
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