While watching WWW i realised, that jet aircraft on technology screen lost their small "carrier variant" research icon. Does that mean we wont be able to put jet aircraft on carriers?...
No jets for our carriers?...
- Thread starter NurAbSal
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Either we'll have to wait for a patch, DLC or even a mod. It is very unlikely to be added before release, i would rather them iron out the creases (so to speak) and make sure the game is not broken at launch (I believe it wont be). They could add stuff like this later tbh
i dont think anyone deployed any carrier born Jets in WWII, the ME-262 and the Arado 234 were both land based, the comet was land based as well, i think its due to the fact that swept wings which are required for high mach number flying have poor performance at low speeds, and will need a very long deck on a carrier or a catapult, which i think was developed by the british after the war.
i could be wrong though
i could be wrong though
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A quick search brings me to Wikipedia (where else?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_aircraft_carrier
"The first jet landing on a carrier was made by Lt Cdr Eric "Winkle" Brown who landed on HMS Ocean in the specially modified de Havilland VampireLZ551/G[1] on 3 December 1945."
"and following the introduction of angled flight decks, jets were operating from carriers by the mid-1950".
So, if jets on carriers were only feasible in the mid 50s, there is your reason why it is not in the game, whose tech ends between 1945-1950. It's due to the same reasons why you can't mount your nukes on a rocket or on subs. Its simply too advanced for the time frame the game wants to cover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_aircraft_carrier
"The first jet landing on a carrier was made by Lt Cdr Eric "Winkle" Brown who landed on HMS Ocean in the specially modified de Havilland VampireLZ551/G[1] on 3 December 1945."
"and following the introduction of angled flight decks, jets were operating from carriers by the mid-1950".
So, if jets on carriers were only feasible in the mid 50s, there is your reason why it is not in the game, whose tech ends between 1945-1950. It's due to the same reasons why you can't mount your nukes on a rocket or on subs. Its simply too advanced for the time frame the game wants to cover.
This really has nothing to do with this at all. Thats your standard sentence you can apply to any question brought up until June. My guess would be that making jets able to use carriers is nothing more than changing a variable like "carrier" to "yes", I guess thats about 2 minutes work. If they ever expand the timeline, they can easily do that, but its not that this would be difficult at all. They just don't want it to be possible in the base game because of the time span they want to cover.
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In previous builds there was icon for researching carrier variants of jet fighter... It was removed not so long ago...
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Besides the timeline, this to me is why it doesn't make sense to have jets on carriers in HOI4. They required changes to the carrier decks to support them. That is probably not something built into the game.
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The point about nukes on rockets is fair. There were no nuclear-armed missiles until 1951. So as it's outside the timeframe it not being included makes sense.
However, jets on carriers were not only feasible in late 1945 but the Americans had built 30 armed carrier-based jets (the FJ 1 Fury ) by 1947. The British had prototype Sea Vampires but I don't recall any production runs, and the wikipedia page on the Vampire is unhelpful.
It's really not a big issue in the grand scheme of things, but it's interesting to see that it's been removed as an option.
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USN also had service jet of similar vintage as Saber, F9F Panther. Jets were capable of carrier operations even without angled decks, just as long as the ship is long enough that it dosn't need the extra length from angling (which is what angling does: enables longer deck for given ship length). Catapults were interwar invention, though obviously catapults in late '30s were unable to handles such heavy planes as jets.
In broader terms this isn't really a jet specific issue, even if that represented a major jump. All planes need some basic qualities to operate satisfactorily from carrier: flight-deck strength and length, strong enough arrestors, big and powerful enough lifts to both fit them and move them, enough hangar clearance to store them and such. For example the British armoured carriers featured (in part, at least) 14 feet hangars where you simply couldn't store a Corsair, and all of the CVEs probably had limits on how powerful piston planes they could carry (most did by with Wildcats). In time of rapid aircraft development naval architects had to think foward and consider how large a possible future plane would be.
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While I agree that it should be feasible to put jets on carriers very late in the game, if nations bee-line it (jets were operational from carriers during the Korean war, not so long after HoI ends), from memory it involved a bit of work getting it to happen, so simply having a researchable 'variant' like the piston-engined carrier planes would probably be making it a little easy. Historically, both the US and UK operated prop planes off carriers longer than they did from land because of the greater difficulties operating jet aircraft from a CV, and if jets on carriers did make the cut at some stage (an expansion that extended things out to the Korean War would be perfect for it), it'd be good if there was a bit extra required to get them operational (maybe an extra tech to enable jet aircraft cariants on carriers).
It would almost seem as though that a certain level of Aircraft Carrier research would be needed to open up the availability of Jets on carriers. Then of course, there would have to be another variable that wouldn't let you base them on a 1939 tech carrier.
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This would depend a bit on the carrier. The Victorious, laid down in 1937, operated jets after modernisations well into the 1960s.
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I'd love to see an expansion out a bit into the early 50's or perhaps just some more tech out that far even since I think it was Podcat who said he played a game out to some ridiculous date but I think maybe early-mid 50's the game would still be plausible with some later techs without a full blown expansion.
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Oh aye, I'd be all over that. I remember the old Armageddon expansion to HoI2, that was a blast, no pun intended
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It would be pretty rad if jets appeared, including on Aircraft Carriers.
Agreed that a 50s (at least) DLC would be awesome. At least technology wise. No need for Cold War politics
Agreed that a 50s (at least) DLC would be awesome. At least technology wise. No need for Cold War politics
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There is a 1950 model jet plane in the vanilla game. Perhaps give that a researchable carrier variant?
It had researchable carrier variant, but it was removed just recently...
I think it's maybe because every carrier variant aircraft can fly from any CV, so seeing a jet aircraft flying from a Langley (or any pre-war CV) could be quite weird... But I agree, they should let this, ot at least I hope it's moddable.