No Deus Vult

No Deus Vult

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nogluten

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Here's a link to a primary source that literally has Deus Vult in it. This is an account of the speech of Pope Urban II from 1095 in Clermont, when he called for the first crusade.

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/urban2a.asp

"Most beloved brethren, today is manifest in you what the Lord says in the Gospel, `Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them'; for unless God had been present in your spirits, all of you would not have uttered the same cry; since, although the cry issued from numerous mouths, yet the origin of the cry as one. Therefore I say to you that God, who implanted is in your breasts, has drawn it forth from you. Let that then be your war cry in combats, because it is given to you by God. When an armed attack is made upon the enemy, this one cry be raised by all the soldiers of God: 'It is the will of God! It is the will of God!' [Deus vult! Deus Vult!]
 

Emre Yigit

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What nonsense.
 

Leyrann

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Devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Devs aren't damned if they do because if anyone complains about it they just tell them "it's a term that was historically used in this setting. We are not here to judge history, we are only here to represent it as accurately as possible."
 

Lahvac

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I hope they add a disclaimer explaining that the game was made by a multicultural team and that they immensely value all cultures and religions. That would add so much to the experience. Also, pathway to gender equality and environmental laws with huge penalties if you don't enact them.
 

Leyrann

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Alright guys, I've been arguing against the removal of Deus Vult in this thread, but... not buying the game because of it? I think that's a little bit excessive. Or are you saying you're playing the game for it's political stance, rather than because, y'know, it's fun?
 
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Nameless_Ensign

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Imagine giving the neo-nazis exactly what they want by letting them take words and symbols away from you.

Honestly not interested in supporting a company that ignores history for 'woke'ness and has a predatory mobile game.
 

TolHydra

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Alright guys, I've been arguing against the removal of Deus Vult in this thread, but... not buying the game because of it? I think that's a little but excessive. Or are you saying you're playing the game for it's political stance, rather than because, y'know, it's fun?

Yeah, pretty much. And unless they find a way to forcibly remove all copies of Crusader Kings 2 from the market. I don't see why I would even care.
 

Tukata

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God damn, the game has just been anounced and it is already a failure. Crusader Kings has always be a niche game for people really interested in history and historical accuracy of the medieval era. Censuring things like "Deus Vult" was probably the worst move you could have done, Paradox. Imperator will look like a huge success in comparaison. And it's only the beginning. I wonder what they will anounce in the next dev blogs. A non-binary king in the Xth century ?
 
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brobman22

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Here's a link to a primary source that literally has Deus Vult in it. This is an account of the speech of Pope Urban II from 1095 in Clermont, when he called for the first crusade.

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/urban2a.asp
This account was written 25 years after the fact. Not exactly primary. It even says that right at the top. I'm not saying Deus Vult wasn't said but don't lie.
 

Chazzen01

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Honestly, this reminds me of the push for video game censorship in the 90s. But instead of politicians pushing for it, it is now the game journalists doing it. The slow creep of thought policing continues ever on-ward it seems.

I will still be buying the game because there is nothing quite like Paradox GSGs, but it does worry me about how much farther they will go with this in the future. It definitely doesn't bode well. Meh.
 

Darrenb209

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Alright guys, I've been arguing against the removal of Deus Vult in this thread, but... not buying the game because of it? I think that's a little but excessive. Or are you saying you're playing the game for it's political stance, rather than because, y'know, it's fun?

It's not about Deus Vult in particular but what it's removal represents.

CK2 without Deus Vult is like HOI without Nazi's or Soviets, Stellaris but you have no goal or driver, EU4 but every nation is utterly equal and bland with no flavour and Victoria but the Colonialism is censored.

It's an integral part of the Era, the motivation behind basically everything for several hundred years. If you can strip that away because of a few crazies on the internet, what else will be removed or go missing?
 

unillogical

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The key quote that summarises why this is a stupid idea is this one:

"asked how Paradox’s community team felt about this, and was told emphatically that the words will not appear in Crusader Kings 3. That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades"

The thing is, everytime this happens people point out 'you do realise your critics won't be satisfied by your giving in, they'll just push for something more'. Except in this instance they are explicitly telling you that this is the case. You're censoring a historically based game (and therefore history) because of the sensibilities of people that will not buy it anyway, who don't think a game that portrays this period fairly should exist, and who have explicitly told you that your consession means nothing to them. I won't be buying this game either in protest.
 

TheBeetlejuice

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Why are people getting so upset over this? It's not like Paradox are rewriting history, the game will obviously still feature crusades (it's in the name) and by extension the idea of deus vult. It's just the phrase that has become a symbol of fascism over the last few years. The fact that so many fans on here are getting so upset over this is worrying, because this means they either are ignorant to the connotation the phrase has gotten (but why would you get so emotional then?) or actual fascists. Or edgelords, which is naturally a possibility.

I for one would have been at least a little weirded out had they prominently used the phrase in game. Remember Christchurch.
 

Tukata

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Alright guys, I've been arguing against the removal of Deus Vult in this thread, but... not buying the game because of it? I think that's a little but excessive. Or are you saying you're playing the game for it's political stance, rather than because, y'know, it's fun?

I have principles. I categorically refuse to give money to a company that sacrifices historical accuracy for their political ideas, whether these ideas are from right or left, it doesn't matter. Historical accuracy should always prevails on political opinions, always. So yeah, I'll stay on CK II like many other players, thanks.
 

Fallofthepurple

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Do I think its mere appeasement to some outlet that was fishing for an answer they can headline somewhere? Absolutely.

But you people act like DEUS VULT was written all over CK II and that they are removing an integral part of the game but thats not true, its not even remotely close. It didnt make any difference in CKII and it wont make one now.

The "muh historical accuracy" argument is laughable at best in a game with much worse inaccuracies but apparently this is the hill some of you have decided to die on. (I sense ulterior motives :rolleyes:)

That being said I respect yalls decision to pass on the game. The rest of us can move on and complain about more productive things like mechanic X or balance change Y.
 
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