No Deus Vult

[Fallofthepurple]

Like I said, that's simply what I've seen in other games and seeing that something was already announced as removed from CK3 (even though right now we're only discussing wording), I am worried what else no longer made it, or will be taken out. Thankfully I got Xbox Game Pass and CK3 seems to be going there, so I'll be able to try it out once it releases. Before that point was mentioned in the article, it would have been an insta buy for me on steam, because I would be planning on owning DLCs and Xbox Game pass tends to only give people the base game, but now I want to see how much of the game is still in the game first.

Yeah I definitely feel you here but perhaps we should pile up our anger on whenever something like this actually happens. Its good to be critical but we shouldnt blow things out of proportion immediatly. Also I completely forgot about the Game Pass thing thank you!

Im happy to have all the people in this thread here should there be any real problem alas some have decided to leave us.

 

[DrEmettBrown]

It's media actually, who give their best to turn a meme into this kind of sensation for their own gain. And even more so idiots who bite in instead of just ignoring this attempt of generating artificial outrage.

People get outraged because companies cower in fear at being mentioned negatively by a blue Checkmark on twitter on in RPS and attempt to appease these people when it is quite clear that these people are not the intended audience of the game.

 

[Snowflake0000145]

I think it's a great idea, solely based on the fact that so many idiots are offended by it and have promised to stay away from the game.
I'd love for the community of my medieval child murdering incest simulator to have less outright fascists and enlightened centrists turning it into a toxic mess.

God can you be more of a pretentious arse, I’m not going to but the game because it shows a downward spiral of rewriting my nations history to appease American liberals

 

[J.B.]

CK II has Allahu Akbar in Haji events

I don't have a problem with that. During some instances of gameplay, it could be just as appropriate and expected for certain Islamic characters to say something specific to them, as the case with Christian crusaders saying their own specific words. Let us examine the way our characters, within their cultural and religious contexts, realize the world around them!

 

[Guaire123456789]

God can you be more of a pretentious arse, I’m not going to but the game because it shows a downward spiral of rewriting my nations history to appease American liberals

Not including a phrase isnt rewritring anything

 

[Holy.Death]

This is a huge red flag for the development, because it shows how bendy Paradox might be just to appease "political sensibilities", instead of simply focusing on making a good game.

 

[Snowflake0000145]

Deus Vult is not crucial

It kind of is, it’s a battlecry that was used very regularly

 

[Guaire123456789]

Care to post some real sources backing up these statements?

Inb4 all you can find is few loonie cases of terror linked to the right, meanwhile hundreds of terror acts committed by those who progressive-left protects will suddenly not matter to you.
Antifa alone commits more violence than those pepe-recists who roleplay stuff on their games and internet boards.

Antifa has never killed anyone, meanwhile white supremacist kill more people that any other kind of supremacist in the US

 

[Chazzen01]

Obuisely i'm against banning deus vult but it's weird seing people here pretend like paradox don't have a large amount of far right fans

Paradox also has a lot of far-left fans...so I don't get the point you are trying to make here. Even if Paradox had all of the far-right individuals in the world as fans, it still wouldn't change the *content* or *context* of what the phrase means. Any number of 'memes' or 'phrases' could be co-opted by the far-left or far-right, and it still wouldn't somehow change the original intent.

That also doesn't change my point about banning some phrase just because certain ideologies *also* use it. Anyone can like any number of games, it doesn't have to be taken as a direct reflection of the artistic intent of said title. All it does is self-censor those who, obviously, were intentionally using it with no racist intent. Giving up the ground to censors and ideological trolls on either side is just a bad thing to do in general. You will never be able to please the censors, and the trolls will always find new things/words/phrases to use instead. It becomes a virtually never ending loop.

 

[GuyIncognito26]

The alt right/gamergate thing is completely devoid of morality and ethics. They're nihilist little goons who just want to burn everything down because women won't touch them voluntarily. And so they're lashing out the only way they can aside from killing innocent people: by using their toxic association to ruin good things for everyone else.

The point is that the blame for that belongs with them.

If the Klan all started eating at McDonalds and making a big public thing about how the Klan is "loving it" and posting McDonald's pictures all the time, it would be a problem for McDonald's and they'd have to make a big effort to counter it.

Just pretending it's not happening is not something they could get away with without a massive crater in their bottom line.

Paradox is being defamed and slandered by this horrid little movement and is doing the only thing they really can do. I don't blame Paradox at all for that. I blame the people who just want to burn everything down because they're unhappy with their lives.

 

[Guaire123456789]

It kind of is, it’s a battlecry that was used very regularly

That doesnt make it crucial, CK2 could remove that phrase and literally nothing would change

 

[Gurluas]

This thread is an awful read.
It's an understandable move in that Paradox has gotten bad rep due to the popularity of Deus Vult (but more so, HOI) being popular with some pretty questionable far-right crowd linked to terroritst incidents - with that background, either way would be been controversial to some degree.
I probably would have not omitted it for purposes of accuracy, but it's debatable given the context - and ultimately it's a debate about a piece or two of flavour text in a bloody computer game, not a majorly creative interpretation of history. The overblown outrage and raving about "the SJWs" looks easily worse.

I disagree, it is self-censorship for the sake of the outrage culture. It is a VERY slippery slope that leads to bad things, instead of bending over for such people, you need to make a stance and defend Deus Vult as a historical phrase that in the context of the game will continue to be used as such.

 

[DrEmettBrown]

This thread is an awful read.
It's an understandable move in that Paradox has gotten bad rep due to the popularity of Deus Vult (but more so, HOI) being popular with some pretty questionable far-right crowd linked to terroritst incidents - with that background, either way would be been controversial to some degree.
I probably would have not omitted it for purposes of accuracy, but it's debatable given the context - and ultimately it's a debate about a piece or two of flavour text in a bloody computer game, not a majorly creative interpretation of history. The overblown outrage and raving about "the SJWs" looks easily worse.

Using your logic getting angry about anything but the biggest issues which are destroying the planet is nonsensical, you have no right to get angry if somebody crashes into your car because there are bigger things to be angry about.

 

[Snowflake0000145]

Not including a phrase isnt rewritring anything

Antifa has never killed anyone, meanwhile white supremacist kill more people that any other kind of supremacist in the US

We’re not talking abut antifa

 

[CrazyRat]

I don’t particularly care about „Deus Vult”. However, I feel that it justification of its removal is fuckin' weird.

You have demon-worshipping cult of Kali that makes no sense whatsoever. It is mainly incorporated on the account of Indiana Jones’ references so players can ‘Kali Ma’ someone. (Funny that you could probably make a slightly more realistic version of said society based on e.g. recorded thag.) You have assassins that bear more akin to Assassin’s Creed than reality. Sure, they may not ramble on how religion is opiate for the masses and ‘nothing is true, and everything is permitted!', but they might as well, since they are 100% inaccurate. For starters they are Shia holy order – and therefore may find employment mainly under e.g. Fatimid caliphs – whereas they formed because they become embroiled in the struggle with the more ‘mainstream’ Twelver Shia of the period (namely Fatimids) over Caliph’s identity. Oh, and they also are using hashish – no matter that accounts of their consumption of hashish are found only in Western sources, and term most assuredly has other etymology.

Surely, if Paradox wants to appear as company that is bothered by the fair representations of other cultures, they may start with overcoming their inner twelve years old selves that just HAVE to get pop-culture references at the expense of accuracy and fair representation? I mean, „Deus Vult” really doesn’t strike me as racist in the context of CK II – especially since I have yet to see devs concerned about fair representations.

 

[branimir1999]

Imagine catering to people who won't even buy your game anyway

You can consider me your lost customer as a result of platitude and pointless pandering to over-targetted demographics. Like seriously, the people that get offended by such things are not even interested in (unbiased) history. You believe that just because we are loyal, we are indifferent to these inclusive changes but you're actually just alienating us from your original values and principles that made your games amazing in the first place. Yes, this is a minor and flavor thing, but it's a matter of principle.

I, as a loyal customer of Paradox Interactive, will do the only thing I can: hurt them where it hurts - their wallet. I won't write any stupid articles, I'll just do the most effective measure you can do against a company, boycott.

 

[Guaire123456789]

We’re not talking abut antifa

The guy I quoted was

 

[sk065]

Deus Vult is not crucial

The phrase itself may not be but it gives indication of the direction the game is going, which is concerning

 

[vector1024]

Can't have deus vult in event text in CK3, but can go around hitting a button to kill natives in provinces in EU4.

 

[Snowflake0000145]

Not including a phrase isnt rewritring anything

It is it’s like nit including takbir in a game set in the game of terrorism

 

[Darrenb209]

Not including a phrase isnt rewritring anything

Alright. Let's explore that logic.

HOI4 but the phrases Nazi, Communist, Concentration Camp, Holocaust, Stalin, Hitler, Genocide, Molotov-Ribbentrop, Soviet, Soviet Union and Fascist are not included.

EU4 but the phrases Slave, Empire, Colonialism, Massacre, War and Superiority are not included.

Victoria 2 but the phrases Colonialism, Violence, Genocide, Massacres, Slavery, War, Death, Ruin, Destruction, Trade, Great War and so on are not included.

Do you get the point or do I need to spell it out further? Not including a major defining phrase and motivation for the era is very, very much rewriting history.

In fact, one could say rewriting history in a semi-historical form of media to not include a defining phrase is very much the definition of rewriting history.