No counters at game launch? :(

[Amallric]

Personally I wouldn't mind 3D models(even if they are less informative than counters), but I think they just feel weird. A fleet represented by a battleship or an armored division represented by a tank are fine, but a stack of divisions(and the game most often deals with stacks) represented by a single guy stupidly standing or marching with his gun is pathetic. This could work for Civilization or Total War type of games, it is still more or less ok for Europa Universalis, but in a WW2 game it feels out of place I think. The three soldiers of HoI2 were hardly better though.

 

[snoopy1710]

Personally, I think counter-users are a minority. Perhaps it can be one of the stats we track and we'll know for sure.

Count me in on counters.....

Snoopy

 

[Olfert Fischer]

Counters. Nuf said.

 

[pacja]

I'm quite surprised to hear that counter-users could be a minority, they're so handy and practical! Well, hope they will be available at launch anyway.

 

[plasticpanzers]

In the real world the military uses counters not toy soldiers on maps. nuff said...

 

[Darkrenown]

100% of HoI4 users use models, case closed!

Seriously though, people, I am not taking a poll here. If you prefer counters, good for you - enjoy them. I stated my opinion and the hope we'd one day know for sure, a handful of people posting one way or the other is statistically meaningless.

In the real world the military uses counters not toy soldiers on maps. nuff said...

Which WWII military used NATO counters?

 

[SFSLovenought]

Counters for life.
I'm in it to win it, and counters are simply easier and more efficient.

 

[SFSLovenought]

Which WWII military used NATO counters?

None. But they did use counters, not toys (except in a few desperate situations, I imagine).

 

[plasticpanzers]

Sprites look nice, counters more informative and professional. and I never said NATO! na na na na na na!!

 

[Darkrenown]

None. But they did use counters, not toys (except in a few desperate situations, I imagine).

They weren't playing a computer game either.

 

[Marximus1]

They weren't playing a computer game either.

God forget the burn heal we're gonna need a full recover XD

 

[Searry]

I just hope they won't be a DLC. It would be a ridiculous, customer hating decision.

 

[tommylotto]

Counters. We old grognards may be a minority, but we are a very vocal minority. You'll never hear the end of it. Do the right thing and get your graphics guy working on them pronto. If they are not ready by the time of the land combat DD, there will be hell to pay.

 

[Augustus93]

Sprites can die. Seriously I won't buy the game until there are counters, I refuse to accept sprites only...

 

[Augustus93]

I'm quite surprised to hear that counter-users could be a minority, they're so handy and practical! Well, hope they will be available at launch anyway.

I am surprised that some users even use sprites instead of counters. HoI games don't have three unit types like EU4 where it is very easy to distinguish between an infantry, a cavalry and an artillery unit.

 

[unmerged(83175)]

100% of HoI4 users use models, case closed!

Seriously though, people, I am not taking a poll here. If you prefer counters, good for you - enjoy them. I stated my opinion and the hope we'd one day know for sure, a handful of people posting one way or the other is statistically meaningless.



Which WWII military used NATO counters?

The majority of HoI buyers buys the game, play it a couple of days/weeks and than move on to another game. It's great for Paradox because they sold the game.
We forum users are a minority, but we are a loyal minorty and we played HoI for years...

 

[Augustus93]

The number of players who write AARs are a tiny minority, those who register on the forum are a larger minority. As I said, maybe we'll be able to track this on Steam and know for sure

This argument is true however it is meaningless from a statistical point of view. If say over 50% of people uses sprites instead of counters then you would expect to have more AARs having sprites instead of counters which is clearly not the case. And you would also expect to see more people in favor of sprites compared to counters on the forums as well which is again not the case. If you say that you think there are more people preferring to play with sprites instead of counters then where are they?

 

[Augustus93]

The majority of HoI buyers buys the game, play it a couple of days/weeks and than move on to another game. It's great for Paradox because they sold the game.
We forum users are a minority, but we are a loyal minorty and we played HoI for years...

This is true, most people bothering registering on the forums are Paradox fans. The people who just buy the game and then move on are not likely to buy any DLCs either because they have already moved on to other games.

 

[BlitzWarfare]

Considiring how 'well' sprites worked I think this is probably a good decision (sarcasm)

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?575845-Funky-Hungarian-Unit-Sprites-(HoI3-Collection)
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?556621-Unit-Graphics-of-other-nations-in-HOI3-are-not-working-correctly

 

[Rio]

UH...

Heh, I couldn't play the game without the counters I don't think. Too much having to mouse over and mess about when a glance at a swath of counters would give so much more information. Further, it makes it far easier to know organizational hierarchies with the counter-size variations. Less cluttered but useful to have WITH the sprites, as I regularly switch back and forth using LOD depending on what features of the map, numbers of units, or unit hierarchies I am trying to see.

If the game only contained the rather uninformative models, I think I would probably wait until the game was discounted, as I wouldn't want to buy something at full price I might not be able to reasonably play without getting a headache.

Perhaps merely a majority of persons posting on your forums prefer counters (or like me, tend to use both of the styles together via LOD). Forum owners are free to do what they will with wild extrapolations on the unscientific accretion of posters they have assembled over the years, as surely it is hard to prove we are a stochastic bunch (even if we may be easily defined as a sarcastic bunch).

I would like to say, though, that as a veteran 'responsible person' of another game developer's forums, when a significant proportion of the persons who are regularly vocal in general (forum posters) sit up and mention something, whether they are a majority or simply a significant minority with a higher-than-average interest in (and therefor likelihood to buy and proselytize) one's game offerings, its probably prudent to treat the subject seriously, and be prepared to be surprised about statistics. "Possibly non-stochastic" doesn't mean a sample is wrong in its predictive direction either, only that its hard to prove that it is one way or another. Where an option is easily made available for a majority or even significant minority, it seems odd to bait the crowd rather than simply say, 'chill out, its coming'. Having personally reaped the whirlwind from a lack of clarity on this subject elsewhere, I can only assume that 'chill out, its coming' is appropriate.