FourWinds

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Remember guys: Moo is a Paradox marketing guy, and it doesn't need him to note something for CO's dev team to be aware of it. Moo's a good guy, but he's marketing and not a developer; it means nothing that he's not aware of this over a weekend. And give the poor chirpard a break; he's probably knackered after the run up to the game's launch.
 

FourWinds

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You've got that the wrong way round. We posted this thread on Wednesday and he didn't see it in the week. The thread on Reddit he saw at the weekend, and he still hadn't seen this one.

Yeah, I understand; I don't think it matters though. I would be amazed if CO coders were unaware of this discussion; they read these forums, and they even stick their heads up occasionally to say hola. I really don't think it matters that a Paradox marketing guy - a knackered Paradox marketing guy - didn't know about this until days after. I'm sure CO will get to it after the drop-dead bugs (not launching, black screen, killed my cat etc).
 

magitsu

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Can parks be modded to have no crime or death too? Then they won't have problems if we place them away from roads.
Not with Asset Editor currently. Parks have only basically fire and garbage modifiers... and tourism.
But I'm sure some modder will find a way if there's enough motivation to do so.
 

Inge Jones

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Not with Asset Editor currently. Parks have only basically fire and garbage modifiers... and tourism.
But I'm sure some modder will find a way if there's enough motivation to do so.

I must say my preferred solution is to enable emergency vehicles for pedestrian paths. I wouldn't even mind them taking shortcuts over them to avoid busy junctions.
 

jpepe

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I've had the same problem with my commercial demand and it's maddening! Would really like this to be fixes ASAP as it's kind of killing the game. My big city has like one grocery store!? And my downtown district is all high rise residential with WAY too many office buildings. Please release a bug fix for this pronto, seems like it should be semi-easy patch. Thanks!
 

spring_onions

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Experienced the same thing on my first city. It kept me wondering why no one wants to do business on my fair city despite everything being fine.
Then I realized that MAYBE I wasn't producing goods, the kind of goods produced by generic industry, AND (again, maybe) there were just too many of them for a 20k+ pop.
I had forestry, farming, and oil industry aplenty but no generic industry to produce goods. MAYBE the shopping malls and the other commercial buildings want to source locally and less competition to maximize profits.

With that in mind, I made a new city. I made sure that I had the generic industry this time along with forestry and farming. I zoned commercial bit by bit to make sure I have no more than 10 establishments.
Played the game normally - expanding the residential areas, making sure that the citizens are happy, pretty much everything mayoral. After a few weeks, there was still demand for commercial!
Expanded the city and there was still demand for it, albeit quite low. Then it was gone. I thought, surely because I had a couple of big shopping malls and whatnot, the zero commercial demand was understandable.
A few weeks pass with no demand for it and then one day a citizen tweets chirps me saying that local retailers need more goods! I thought maybe someone was just trolling me but I decided to make a new zone for general industry, after all, I haven't expanded my first general industry zone. So I did and holy poopy he was right! I had commercial demand once again! I also noticed that it increased as residents and generic industry came.
Made a lot of sense. Source locally + more buyers = high profits

More testing needs to be done but for now, I'm very sleepy and will just continue this the next day.
 

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I've had the same problem with my commercial demand and it's maddening! Would really like this to be fixes ASAP as it's kind of killing the game. My big city has like one grocery store!? And my downtown district is all high rise residential with WAY too many office buildings. Please release a bug fix for this pronto, seems like it should be semi-easy patch. Thanks!

Mithkabob created a mod that fixes the bug, details here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?844425-MOD-In-Testing-Remove-Parks-From-Directly-Impacting-Commercial-Demand The mod is working great for me!

That said, I do hope that CO fixes it in the core. :)
 

Beric

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Mithkabob created a mod that fixes the bug, details here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?844425-MOD-In-Testing-Remove-Parks-From-Directly-Impacting-Commercial-Demand The mod is working great for me!

That said, I do hope that CO fixes it in the core. :)

Yeah, I'm not going to demolish 45 parks and replace them with modded ones, and a few days later demolish them all again and replace them with the official patched ones. Really hoping this patch comes soon.
 

Aytumious

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Yeah, I'm not going to demolish 45 parks and replace them with modded ones, and a few days later demolish them all again and replace them with the official patched ones. Really hoping this patch comes soon.

You don't need to demolish anything with his mod. You just run the mod.
 

yharzu

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Experienced the same thing on my first city. It kept me wondering why no one wants to do business on my fair city despite everything being fine.
Then I realized that MAYBE I wasn't producing goods, the kind of goods produced by generic industry, AND (again, maybe) there were just too many of them for a 20k+ pop.
I had forestry, farming, and oil industry aplenty but no generic industry to produce goods. MAYBE the shopping malls and the other commercial buildings want to source locally and less competition to maximize profits.

With that in mind, I made a new city. I made sure that I had the generic industry this time along with forestry and farming. I zoned commercial bit by bit to make sure I have no more than 10 establishments.
Played the game normally - expanding the residential areas, making sure that the citizens are happy, pretty much everything mayoral. After a few weeks, there was still demand for commercial!
Expanded the city and there was still demand for it, albeit quite low. Then it was gone. I thought, surely because I had a couple of big shopping malls and whatnot, the zero commercial demand was understandable.
A few weeks pass with no demand for it and then one day a citizen tweets chirps me saying that local retailers need more goods! I thought maybe someone was just trolling me but I decided to make a new zone for general industry, after all, I haven't expanded my first general industry zone. So I did and holy poopy he was right! I had commercial demand once again! I also noticed that it increased as residents and generic industry came.
Made a lot of sense. Source locally + more buyers = high profits

More testing needs to be done but for now, I'm very sleepy and will just continue this the next day.

nope thats not the problem or the solution for the problem... I have tons and tons of generic industry (+a little spezialized) and it is even so far that the generic industry complains that they have no place to sell their goods. not even export it to the outer world work because i have so many goods poduced. they get abandoned and they say when i hover over it that they need more commercial shops to sell their goods but still i dont get any commercial demand. its all because of the parks... everything else in my city is close to perfect.
i mean look at that ratio... http://i.imgur.com/Zp5huR1.jpg it cant be right. (60% of my industry is generic, all max building lvl)
 

Klinn

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Another data point for this discussion -- after adding a bunch of parks to my latest city I ended up in the same No Commercial Demand situation.

Later on I added a metro line that routed from high density residential areas, through offices, and through commercial zones. After a while I was surprised to see a tiny bit of Commercial Demand. I built another metro line in the other half of the city and got a bit more. Not very much, less than 1/10th of the bar height, but something anyway.

So maybe I just have to make it easier / faster for Cims to shop and the demand works again?

- - - - - - - - -

Edit: After 15 minutes at slowest game speed, Commercial Demand is now up to about 25%. No other changes. Well, except for the trees and bushes I was planting around the elevated freeway. ;)
 
Last edited:

Marquoz

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Sure, there are ways to boost zero commercial demand. Build outside connections, build up your city in general, etc. But take that city where you now have a little commercial demand, and delete all the parks. It will soar much higher.
 

FourWinds

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It's too simple to say that there's a bug and parks shouldn't have anything to do with commercial demand. I started another city, but didn't add parks until I had a few thousand cims, and now I have no issues at all with C demand and park placement. My wild guess is that there is some sort of bug, but it has to do with when/how cim's 'needs' are activated within the game.

In case you didn't believe me about the parks, I uploaded a save file just now. I do use an English phone box mod and probably have pre-order parks, but I guess this will work for you in some form. It's called 'Demo of C demand with parks'

So, I myself am waiting until CO say something more about the Commercial Park relationship. If I use a mod now, I think the resultant save file might be a waste of space after CO get round to any fix for this.


P.S. I see in Moo's update thread that people are asking (still only asking rather than demanding) for a hotfix for this issue, this issue that I don't see how they could even think they understand themselves. I have faith that CO will not act until they, as least, do understand it however.
 
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yharzu

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im still 100% on the side of this being a bug and not intended. ofc you can work around the problem if you know it exists it, i also started a new city without any parks and only added unique buildings (and 1 park so far :D) veeeery slowly and with perfect outside connections. it works but that being said, it is still a bug. i think we showed enough examples where it is very clear to see that parks eat up A LOT of commercial demand. And that simply shouldnt be the case imho...
 

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Greetings people, update time!

I've spoken with CO about this and we're currently having QA look into getting solid repro's on this happening. Please note that even though this is indeed an issue, most users probably do not experience nor notice it. Basically; we're not sure if this is happening globally or only during certain circumstances.

Nevertheless, if it is like you say - which seems to be the case - then this is a bug/issue we're going to solve.

From my latest conversation with Mariina:

"This issue will be investigated."

What you can do to help:

If you have managed to pinpoint why, when and how this is happening and can reliably reproduce it then please either PM me to the thread where you posted your info, or send it directly.

Reports like that may help us greatly in finding the root.

Thank you.
 
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