Nice Vikings!

Malthus · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Slargos
A very good series. I didn't enjoy the portrayal of the Swedes though. Didn't quite cater to my chauvinism.

I can see that it would not - but if I was a Norwegian, I might take a tad bit of offence at the suggestion that some of my ancestors were trolls...

BTW, was there any historical truth to that "hanging people on oak trees at Upsala" business?

Styrbiorn · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Slargos
A very good series. I didn't enjoy the portrayal of the Swedes though. Didn't quite cater to my chauvinism.

Englighten me? How was the Swedes portrayed.

There are only one book everyone _must_ read about the Vikings: The Long Ships : A Saga of the Viking Age
It's a classic. A shame Bengtsson didn't get the Nobel Prize.

saskganesh · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Malthus

BTW, was there any historical truth to that "hanging people on oak trees at Upsala" business?

mythological truth for sure. Odin/Wotan hung himself from the world tree, lost an eye, and discovered language. I don't think its much of stretch to postulate the ritual acting out of myth, particularly in some sort of shamanic context.

Amusingly, a little diferrent shamanic tradition from say, the Buddha, who just sat under a tree...

Tim O · Apr 16, 2003

Just more PC bs. I'm not suprised.

Malthus · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Englighten me? How was the Swedes portrayed.

There are only one book everyone _must_ read about the Vikings: The Long Ships : A Saga of the Viking Age
It's a classic. A shame Bengtsson didn't get the Nobel Prize.

Never heard of it - but I'll get it on Amazon - it looks good!

Styrbiorn · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Malthus

BTW, was there any historical truth to that "hanging people on oak trees at Upsala" business?

At some of the larger midvinterblot, according to the sagas (each ninth year to be exact). Normally they just killed and hung pigs

And it was a yew tree BTW, like a large outdoor Christmas tree decorated with sacrifices to the gods.

Slargos · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Malthus
I can see that it would not - but if I was a Norwegian, I might take a tad bit of offence at the suggestion that some of my ancestors were trolls...

BTW, was there any historical truth to that "hanging people on oak trees at Upsala" business?

Only if times were really, really bad.

AFAIK thralls were only sacrificed extremely rarely most of the time, but more often than usual in Uppsala.. but they did indeed hang them in the trees.

Slargos · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Englighten me? How was the Swedes portrayed.

Basically, they were backwards nancies that the hero only took passing interest in, IIRC.

Norway and Denmark is where it was at.

His roadtrip in Sweden culminated with the killing of the Swedish main potentate (don't recall if it was the "high priest" or "king")

Peter Ebbesen · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Styrbiorn
There are only one book everyone _must_ read about the Vikings: The Long Ships : A Saga of the Viking Age
It's a classic. A shame Bengtsson didn't get the Nobel Prize.

Yes, that one is a masterpiece. I have not read it in the English translation, but if even approaches the quality of the original, it is a must read.

Let us all sacrifice to Ægir, Allah, and Saint John in Bengtsson's name!

peo · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Malthus
I can see that it would not - but if I was a Norwegian, I might take a tad bit of offence at the suggestion that some of my ancestors were trolls...

BTW, was there any historical truth to that "hanging people on oak trees at Upsala" business?

AFAIK they havn't found any real evidence of human sacrifice.
They have found servants buried in the big mounds there but they predate the vikings by several hundred years, bronze/early iron age.

It just doesn't make much sense in killing slaves, even if they didn't think as we do slaves still constituded expensive property.
It's wasteful to kill them like that, maybe a old "obsolete" one could be killed but i don't think that Oden would have apriciated that kind of sacrifice.

Oh and the world tree was an Ash.

saskganesh · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by peo

Oh and the world tree was an Ash.

there we go then. thnx.
some neat :treelore" at http://www.treelore.com/trees/ash.html

human sacrifice: an Adam of Bremen is reportedly the single contempprary eye witness account. found an interesting article in the problem-with- human-sacrifice vein at
http://www.beasts-in-the-woods.org/piparticle.html

ps. love those URL's names. colorful.

Malthus · Apr 17, 2003

Originally posted by saskganesh
there we go then. thnx.
some neat :treelore" at http://www.treelore.com/trees/ash.html

human sacrifice: an Adam of Bremen is reportedly the single contempprary eye witness account. found an interesting article in the problem-with- human-sacrifice vein at
http://www.beasts-in-the-woods.org/piparticle.html

ps. love those URL's names. colorful.

Great links, particularly the second!

Viking · Apr 17, 2003

We are all nice Vikings....... or else........ [hides battle axe behind back]

stnylan · Apr 17, 2003

They do teach a santised version in schools.

However, an interesting datum. Waterstones has recently had a special offer on the Horrible History series, and it was one of their most successful promotions ever, according to a friend who works in the chain.

The Horrible Histories are aimed mostly at kids - though they are a fun read for adults to - and specifically include some of the nasty bits.

sample titles:
Rotten Romans
Vicious Vikings
Terrible Tudors (I think)

and so on.

Vandelay · Apr 17, 2003

Adam of Bremen is considered quite untrustworthy in contemporary Swedish historical sciences - there is actually very little Viking Age remains found at Uppsala at all. The great mounds and the great hall are both Migration Period (c.400-600 AD). The Temple has been sought for and never found - actually from what we know the Vikings had no dedicated temples. Their rituals were performed in the open or in the chieftain´s hall.

There are some, a handful perhaps, Viking Age burials which seem to include human sacrifice e.g in Birka but no evidence for stringing up people from trees. On Frösön, Jämtland (Styrbiorn can tell you all about it) a tree with accompanying animal bones has been excavated and interpreted as a Holy Tree.

In the last 20 years there has been a lot of research on the similarities of the Nordic seid (pronounced seith, a sort of magic associated with Odin and Freya) and shamanism. The Saami might just be the connecting link.

BTW the silly little mask were used until exactly 793 when the Vendel period people decided they were actually Vikings and dropped them...

Cheers,
Vandelay

Jacob · Apr 17, 2003

Ibn Falad, the arabic traveller, wrote an eyewitness account of the ship burning burial of a Rus Viking chieftain. It includes the sacrifice of a slave girl (by slitting her throat).

What's the title of Bengtson's books in Danish or Swedish?

Jacob

Jacob · Apr 17, 2003

Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
Just more PC bs. I'm not suprised.

What are you referring to?

Jacob

Peter Ebbesen · Apr 17, 2003

Originally posted by Jacob

What's the title of Bengtson's books in Danish or Swedish?

Jacob

"Røde Orm". The first part is "Søfarere i vesterled", the second "Hjemme og i østerled".

Jacob · Apr 17, 2003

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
"Røde Orm". The first part is "Søfarere i vesterled", the second "Hjemme og i østerled".

Yeah... those books are brilliant.

Jacob

saskganesh · Apr 17, 2003

Originally posted by Jacob
What are you referring to?

Jacob

Progressive Conservatives (PC). its all Brian Mulroney's fault .

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