Nice game, but not fun to deal with limitations

[Asuzu]

1) "You need special revoke reasons blah blah blah"

What reasons? Have you ever seen Game of Thrones?
I won the war. Took all their castles and shit. I would very much like to slaughter my enemies on the spot, and usurp their titles, since THEY LOST THE WAR. If I feel extremely generous, I might even let them live if they forfeit all claims and gtfo of now MY lands.
Why I need to spend 20 years to untangle all the inheritance bullshit? Their lands are MINE. I am a King and yet their lands are inherited outside of the kingdom by some bastard mother's-brother-in-law. That's a circus.
Not fun.

2) "If you revoke this, you get -15 with all your vassals!"

Why? I am revoking titles from some greedy piece of shit Duke to actually distribute titles properly to my vassals.
They should lick my boots out of happiness, not get -15 opinion.
Moreover, it is MY RIGHT as a King to grant and revoke whatever the hell I please, whenever the hell I please.
Not fun.

3) My Vassals not asking permission to wage wars outside of the kingdom.
Since when?
Name me ONE kingdom, where you could freely wage war outwards without ASKING YOUR LIEGE first for permission. Just name one.
This is complete gamey bull, and having to revoke conquered titles gained by these vassals in such wars is going back to 1 and 2 - annoying, and...
Not fun.

Overall, trying to build a stable Kingdom is a task on its own, and when confronted with these gamey limitations, is made obnoxious.
If someone knows of a mod to relax these badly designed constrictions, I would be very very grateful.
Otherwise, playing this simply gets annoying and boring very quickly.

The game penalizes conquest approach ways too much.
I get it, Paradox wants you to get your 10 daughters married and get titles this way, but trying to play as a conqueror is a big nono in their books, even though history is bloated of these examples.
Very bad design.

 

[Zoomun]

Are you really using Game of Thrones as a good representation of Medieval politics? Also allowing you to easily destroy powerful vassals would very much scare all of your vassals and naturally make them dislike you. Medieval kings were not the absolute rulers that most people believe them to be. Sure they has a lot of power but they were almost always held in check by their vassals to some point. If anything it's too easy to control vassals.

 

[SomeKindOfGnome]

I get it, Paradox wants you to get your 10 daughters married and get titles this way, but trying to play as a conqueror is a big nono in their books, even though history is bloated of these examples.

What?
CK2 is by far the easiest Paradox game to paint the map in from almost any start. As a king or emperor it is very easy to form an extremely centralized realm with just a few easy wars and opinion penalties.
My biggest issue with CK2 is that it's too easy to get past all the limitations you mentioned. An empire can be formed within 1-5 generations unless you go full-in with the roleplaying aspect of the game, and once you form an empire there is nothing stopping you from expanding further with no vassal issues what with all your troops and gold.

In my opinion vassals need to be buffed in some way.

 

[HandicapdHippo]

Name me ONE kingdom, where you could freely wage war outwards without ASKING YOUR LIEGE first for permission. Just name one.

William the Conqueror? The guy whose invasion is like the whole reason the base date without DLC is 1066?

Moreover, it is MY RIGHT as a King to grant and revoke whatever the hell I please, whenever the hell I please.

Thats.... not how feudalism works, like at all.

They should lick my boots out of happiness, not get -15 opinion.

That's not how people work?

 

[Karlington]

I'm gonna assume you're trolling here. If you're trolling, my hat is off to you, because you did a good job. If you're being serious, therapy might be a good option.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

There are console commands or cheat mods that make everything possible you might ever want,
assuming there is a tiny bit of real opinion in your post and not only trolling of course....

 

[sreckom92]

Their lands are MINE

Your lands are yours. Their lands are their's.
The realm is divided between landlords. Medieval King is just the most powerful landlord in the realm. Less powerful lords pay him tribute. Yes, he holds some authority over others, but that comes from his position of power. Not from some divine right.
Well, at least not that much divine right...

 

[Karlington]

Your lands are yours. Their lands are their's.
The realm is divided between landlords. Medieval King is just the most powerful landlord in the realm. Less powerful lords pay him tribute. Yes, he holds some authority over others, but that comes from his position of power. Not from some divine right.
Well, at least not that much divine right...

Do not be ridiculous. I saw the monarch anointed and crowned by the Vicar of Christ himself with my very own eyes. He clearly has a divine mandate.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

You're mistaking feudalism with absolute monarchy.

 

[afrodius]

Ck2 may not be the game for you. I think you might like eu4 better.

 

[Brucesim2003]

Their lands are their's.

Actually no, they aren't. The vassal had use of the land, but the lord still retained ownership.

 

[JohnKR]

You're mistaking fuedalism with absolute monarchy.

He is mistaking Feudalism with something that never existed. Maybe in ancient Egypt....bah actually not even in ancient Egypt...

Actually no, they aren't. The vassal had use of the land, but the lord still retained ownership.

Yes that's true but you have to simulate that de facto most vassals would feel threatened and provoked if a King revoked titles without a reason, that's why the opinion penalty. And that existed even in some of the most extreme absolute monarchies in the age of absolutism, like 1600s France.

 

[knppel]

Ironically enough even the fictional history of Game of Thrones has plenty of such examples where the liege can NOT simply put all his vassals in a dungeon and take all their lands. Even a liege with dragons, in this context, might decide it's more opportune to not burn everyone to not be seen as a tyrant, or simply face the issue that a vassal of theirs has two to four times the manpower in the field, and burning them all would be a lot of work.
Or in the words of Robert I. Baratheon: "Do you think it's honour that keeps them in line, do you think it's honour that's keeping the peace?"

Granted, you simply can kill a whole family or two and take their estates for yourself, but then you will be seen as a tyrannical leader, like Tywin Lannister, the one who exterminated rebellious vassals in Game of Thrones.

You can also simply revoke all titles of someone, as Joffrey tried with Robb, however if you don't have them in jail, they might revolt over it, and hate you (yes, it will stack further despite them already hating you for killing their father).

 

[acsa4]

Is this a Joke? I legitimately can't tell if you're trolling or not. If you are, you're a little late April fools was yesterday.

But on a more serious note: I would suggest NOT bullying your vassals to the ground, I mean respectively if you were a random King's vassal, you wouldn't like it so much if your liege imprisoned you and took away your titles "Just Because". Those Laws are in place to protect yourselves from overzealous Lieges such as yourself.

The more you know~ Bullying Vassals is a bad management model.

 

[Barón Rojo]

Taking all your vassal lands has nothing to do with the middle ages... unlike demon cults, immortals and secret bears.

 

[Zoomun]

Ironically enough even the fictional history of Game of Thrones has plenty of such examples where the liege can NOT simply put all his vassals in a dungeon and take all their lands. Even a liege with dragons, in this context, might decide it's more opportune to not burn everyone to not be seen as a tyrant, or simply face the issue that a vassal of theirs has two to four times the manpower in the field, and burning them all would be a lot of work.
Or in the words of Robert I. Baratheon: "Do you think it's honour that keeps them in line, do you think it's honour that's keeping the peace?"

Granted, you simply can kill a whole family or two and take their estates for yourself, but then you will be seen as a tyrannical leader, like Tywin Lannister, the one who exterminated rebellious vassals in Game of Thrones.

You can also simply revoke all titles of someone, as Joffrey tried with Robb, however if you don't have them in jail, they might revolt over it, and hate you (yes, it will stack further despite them already hating you for killing their father).

Your're forgetting that if Game of Thrones was CK2 then Joffrey could have just revoked all of Ned Stark's titles before he killed him and Robb couldn't do anything.

 

[knppel]

If he had had ideal traits to effectively manage a realm (such as Tywin), maybe.
Instead it was the attempt to do it in reverse order, and to no big surprise the accumulated dislike from all his courtiers piling up to suspicious circumstances.
Joffrey was more like a Basileus that mindlessly executed the megasdukas as he knew one viceroyalty (Harrenhall) would revert back to him, which he'd grant to Littlefinger as his most loyal servant. And then be seriously surprised the son of the executed guy revolts with the rest of his hereditary lands which he had been governing as regent before and can due to cultural and religious reasons excpect the loyalty of his direct subjects and so on.

 

[Xoatl]

Forum needs a haha rating

 

[KPJ]

You can eventually make your vassals unable to declare war through realm laws.

Vassals won't care if you have good reason to take titles. There is a law that lets you take it from anyone of the wrong religion. But also if they rebel against you, or you catch them in a plot. So there is a bit more strategy to it than just throwing them in prison (although taking the vassal opinion penalty good be worth it in some cases).

Keep in mind you can play as a vassal, too, so you might find that more interesting since all the limits of the king will be keeping him from taking your stuff too.

 

[Asuzu]

Are you really using Game of Thrones as a good representation of Medieval politics? Also allowing you to easily destroy powerful vassals would very much scare all of your vassals and naturally make them dislike you. Medieval kings were not the absolute rulers that most people believe them to be. Sure they has a lot of power but they were almost always held in check by their vassals to some point. If anything it's too easy to control vassals.

Good. Fear is very, very good motivator. And when I have a standing retinue 20 times the size of ANY vassal in my realm, wouldn't you think that a good motivation?
When I can come back to their molerat hole of a castle, drag them and their chicken coop out and bloodeagle all of it? Anytime I want.
Not to mention I have their entire court purchased, and they will poison them all the same?

And back to my point - when win the war, and forcefully take the land - why in seven hells am I supposed to play politics with the lords who held them, exactly?
They have reinforced MY ENEMY armies and by that alone, they forfeit their rights, any rights, to the lands I took from them under conquest.
They are not MY vassals. They were my enemy's vassals.
Why the game is insisting I have to play politicking with them?
I have lords of my own in mind, who will, hopefully do the job better.

Your lands are yours. Their lands are their's.
The realm is divided between landlords. Medieval King is just the most powerful landlord in the realm. Less powerful lords pay him tribute. Yes, he holds some authority over others, but that comes from his position of power. Not from some divine right.
Well, at least not that much divine right...

Exactly! Please read above. Each and every lord of my realm has no more than 3% of my power, ever.
How is that for position of power?

You're mistaking fuedalism with absolute monarchy.

Hey, I am a monarch, right? I would very much like to actually feel like one.
What we have right now is a bad joke of a democratic parliament system where everyone apparently has their say, as if that ever did any good, looking how democracy rolled over our world. Even uninstalled Conclave, the worst DLC to date, simply because favour system breaks the game apart and AI starts doing completely stupid things because "oh, it's a favor".

Actually no, they aren't. The vassal had use of the land, but the lord still retained ownership.

Thank you!
Exactly, that was my gift to the lord - to be the steward and protector of MY lands. Entrusted to him.

Ironically enough even the fictional history of Game of Thrones has plenty of such examples where the liege can NOT simply put all his vassals in a dungeon and take all their lands. Even a liege with dragons, in this context, might decide it's more opportune to not burn everyone to not be seen as a tyrant, or simply face the issue that a vassal of theirs has two to four times the manpower in the field, and burning them all would be a lot of work.
Or in the words of Robert I. Baratheon: "Do you think it's honour that keeps them in line, do you think it's honour that's keeping the peace?"

Granted, you simply can kill a whole family or two and take their estates for yourself, but then you will be seen as a tyrannical leader, like Tywin Lannister, the one who exterminated rebellious vassals in Game of Thrones.

You can also simply revoke all titles of someone, as Joffrey tried with Robb, however if you don't have them in jail, they might revolt over it, and hate you (yes, it will stack further despite them already hating you for killing their father).

And how did that go? The vassal Robb had nearly 2/3 of the King's Joffrey's manpower, which gave him the idea of rebelling.
And still, he lost the war and his head, simply because he didn't have enough men to storm the King's castle, and got himself beheaded in backroom politicking while trying to secure more men from HIS own vassals.

Is this a Joke? I legitimately can't tell if you're trolling or not. If you are, you're a little late April fools was yesterday.

But on a more serious note: I would suggest NOT bullying your vassals to the ground, I mean respectively if you were a random King's vassal, you wouldn't like it so much if your liege imprisoned you and took away your titles "Just Because". Those Laws are in place to protect yourselves from overzealous Lieges such as yourself.

The more you know~ Bullying Vassals is a bad management model.

Why, you are mistaken. I am not bullying MY vassals.
But I ask for the right to deal with MY ENEMY's vassals as. I. see. please.
See the difference?

Your're forgetting that if Game of Thrones was CK2 then Joffrey could have just revoked all of Ned Stark's titles before he killed him and Robb couldn't do anything.

He obviously could not, because, as I have mentioned above, the strength of his vassal was nearly 2/3 of his own.
That was not position of power.

You can eventually make your vassals unable to declare war through realm laws.

Vassals won't care if you have good reason to take titles. There is a law that lets you take it from anyone of the wrong religion. But also if they rebel against you, or you catch them in a plot. So there is a bit more strategy to it than just throwing them in prison (although taking the vassal opinion penalty good be worth it in some cases).

Keep in mind you can play as a vassal, too, so you might find that more interesting since all the limits of the king will be keeping him from taking your stuff too.

Then again, why do I have to spend 20 years to deal with the vassals of my enemy?
They fought under his banner.
They didn't rebel and refused to come to war against me, hell no, they all answered their call to war.
Got mixed with shit, and now I have to... politick them?
Come on.

Thank you for you kind replies, this is not an April's fool joke or a troll.
As a conqueror, I obviously have to deal with the lands I have conquered.
So my question stands - why am I forced to play politics with my enemies's vassals, who will NEVER be loyal to me?
The very first thing I would like to do is to clean up court, and put the vassals of my own in charge of the lands I have conquered to watch over.

To be somewhat constructive - I propose to always have a choice, if you want to usurp the titles in war, or keep them under the petty lords who held them.
That is, after all, your right as a conqueror.