Next idea groups for Castille/Spain?

[heroforhirerob]

It's 1518 and I have both Exploration and Expansion as idea groups. I have Portugal, Aragon, and Naples in PUs and Navarra as a vassal. I'm kind of at a loss as to where to go next in terms of idea groups. I've thought about Quantity (to challenge the other major problems and to have troops for the colonial empire), Influence (to keep my subjects in line), Trade (as I figure this will be a huge part of my income), Economic (to support my colonies), Diplomatic and Offensive. I'm leaning towards Quantity as my third idea, but open to better suggestions. What sounds the best?

 

[zincpl]

It depends of course on what you want to do - if you want to go for more PUs or expand in europe then diplo is good. If you want to expand your trade empire then religious is good. I don't think you need influence before either of those. Spain is pretty strong militarily at that point in the game so I wouldn't worry about a mil group yet unless you're finding wars tough.

 

[Jia Xu]

Don't undervalue Defensive. Faster generals, tougher forts, lower fort maintenance, lower army maintenance, less attrition for you, and more attrition for enemies.
Defensive + Exploration policy gives 33% more manpower so it's like having a little bit of Quantity anyway.

 

[Nwaij]

Get diplo, try for "Spain is the Emperor"!

 

[YellowPress]

It's 1518 and I have both Exploration and Expansion as idea groups. I have Portugal, Aragon, and Naples in PUs and Navarra as a vassal. I'm kind of at a loss as to where to go next in terms of idea groups. I've thought about Quantity (to challenge the other major problems and to have troops for the colonial empire), Influence (to keep my subjects in line), Trade (as I figure this will be a huge part of my income), Economic (to support my colonies), Diplomatic and Offensive. I'm leaning towards Quantity as my third idea, but open to better suggestions. What sounds the best?

Colonial nations and mercantilism from estate privilégies will supply you with sufficient trade power so dont need trade
Colonial nations also buff your force limit so you dont need quantity
I'd suggest diplo, influence, or offensive
You also should've already annexed navarre, even if you haven't taken its claims in France yet

 

[Big Bad France]

I would go either religious or administrative. Religious is a very strong idea for colonizing Catholics, since you can gain papal authority through easy conversions of the New World. Administrative ups your governing capacity, so you can state all of Aragon after forming Spain without going over.

 

[Namepending4]

Usually I like to go Religious third for the age bonus, also since it will give you tons of papal influence which lets you keep the catholic buffs up and have a decent chance of being the Papal controller which has a lot of bonuses. Also it saves dip when you declare war using the CB and decreases AE. Also I like to RP a little bit and Religious just feels right for Spain.

Out of the ones you mentioned though my favorite is Offensive. It's policy with expansion gives your generals +1 Fire Pip. Plus you get force limit, disp, general pips, SIEGE ABILITY (oh the AI has so many forts). 10/10 IMO.

 

[LazySiege]

Its really fun to play the diplo game as Castille. I did it like this:

- Try to get many diffrent colonies with at least 10 provinces (Gives Merchant and Fore Limit)
- Get Diplo fish for more PUs and ally some Elector to become emporer
- Expand into African West Cost, so you can stear the indian Trade to you

 

[noldorin]

You need religious idea for colony control for future periods ( Reli + Explo policies ). Spain is a country with artillery bonus so offensive + economic idea policy has great effect and then quality idea should also be chosen. According to the data I obtained with Spain. He doesn't need military ideas other than offensive and quality, these are enough.

Set of ideas about Spain in my opinion

Exploration
Expansion
Offensive
Quality
Religious
İnnovative
Admin
Economic

The order of them should be arranged according to the gameplay.

 

[The Macedonian]

I'd go Offensive. You should have plenty of manpower as Spain to do what you need. Better generals are more important in 1.33 than they had been previously (but really they were still more important than most realized).

Honestly for Spain, I don't think I'd do Exploration and Expansion at all. You get a PU over Portugal in the mission tree. As long as you wait until Portugal grans Exploration ideas, once you PU Portugal they will do all of the heavy lifting for you. Later, you can integrate Portugal and their colonies will become your colonies and you can use the colonist in your ideas strategically, rather than as a bonus to carpet colonization. You can and should be stealing colonies from England, France, Brittany, Holland, the Mamelukes and Norway too.

 

[YellowPress]

I'd go Offensive. You should have plenty of manpower as Spain to do what you need. Better generals are more important in 1.33 than they had been previously (but really they were still more important than most realized).

Honestly for Spain, I don't think I'd do Exploration and Expansion at all. You get a PU over Portugal in the mission tree. As long as you wait until Portugal grans Exploration ideas, once you PU Portugal they will do all of the heavy lifting for you. Later, you can integrate Portugal and their colonies will become your colonies and you can use the colonist in your ideas strategically, rather than as a bonus to carpet colonization. You can and should be stealing colonies from England, France, Brittany, Holland, the Mamelukes and Norway too.

You're spain, all of your missions want you to colonise early, why wouldn't you do it when its the easiest to do

 

[jobarin94]

It all depends on your plans. You need to think about the obstacles you’re facing right now or are going to face in the near future. If you’re often low on manpower or just want more forcelimit, then quantity is the way to go. Economy is very good as well because it allows you to keep inflation at bay, among other useful things (loans, buildings, dev…). Religion is great if you are planning on conquering overseas. Maritime is handy and fun if you need to win the sea, and you can make good money protecting trade (and privateering the english channel!). Quality is good if you need to improve both army and navy. Offensive and defensive give great land bonuses, if you need to defeat a powerful land enemy like France or the Ottomans.

You can also take into account what type of monarch power you have available (maybe your young king is a 6/0/0, which could be an argument in favor of an administrative group). You don’t want to lag behind on tech too much, especially not on military tech.

Also worth mentioning that the quantity+expansion policy gives +10 settler increase, in case you want to go full colonisation.

 

[Marquoz]

Assuming we're talking about single player, as Castile I'd take the Big Three after Exploration and Expansion. The Big Three are Admin (for CCR and GC), Diplomatic (for lower warscore costs and more and better diplomats to forge claims, annex vassals, and prevent coalitions from ever forming), and Influence (to cheaply integrate the many vassals I will create and then absorb over the course of the game). Religious is also useful for Spain--more and stronger missionaries are always nice as a major Catholic colonizer--although since you won't benefit from Deus Vult if you pick it sixth, an argument can be made for grabbing it sooner. Trade is a good pick too. What you don't see on my list anywhere are military ideas. I never take them because they're completely unnecessary once you learn EU4's combat mechanics and how to grow efficiently.

Here are some screenshots from my 1.33 Ironman Castile run in 1578. First, North America:

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

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Every time a tribe or federation attacked one of my colonial nations, I Enforced Peace and grabbed another 15 or so provinces. The net result is that I'm ridiculously powerful in NA.

In case you think I didn't do anything but fight tribes, here are two shots of Europe. I'm Emperor, have smashed the Protestant Reformation, and recently revoked the privilege. My collection point is the English Channel, which will become even more lucrative when I finish eating England and take the rest of Low Country provinces that are part of it.

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

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Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

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South America and Africa have also gone well:

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

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Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

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The ideas I picked were the ones I listed in the first paragraph (although of course I haven't worked my way through the entire list in 1578).

 

[Big Bad France]

Assuming we're talking about single player, as Castile I'd take the Big Three after Exploration and Expansion. The Big Three are Admin (for CCR and GC), Diplomatic (for more and better diplomats to prevent coalitions from ever forming and for lower warscore costs), and Influence (to cheaply integrate the many vassals I will create and then absorb over the course of the game). Religious is also useful for Spain--more and stronger missionaries are always nice as a major Catholic colonizer--although since you won't benefit from Deus Vult if you pick it sixth, an argument can be made for grabbing it sooner. Trade is a good pick too. What you don't see on my list anywhere are military ideas. I never take them because they're completely unnecessary once you learn EU4's combat mechanics and how to grow efficiently.

Here are some screenshots from my 1.33 Ironman Castile run in 1578. First, North America:

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

steamcommunity.com

Every time a tribe or federation attacked one of my colonial nations, I Enforced Peace and grabbed another 15 or so provinces. The net result is that I'm ridiculously powerful in NA.

In case you think I didn't do anything but fight tribes, here are two shots of Europe. I'm Emperor, have smashed the Protestant Reformation, and recently revoked the privilege. My collection point is the English Channel, which will become even more lucrative when I finish eating England and take the rest of Low Country provinces that are part of it.

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

steamcommunity.com

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

steamcommunity.com

South America and Africa have also gone well:

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

steamcommunity.com

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Europa Universalis IV.

steamcommunity.com

The ideas I picked were the ones I listed in the first paragraph (although of course I haven't worked my way through the entire list in 1578).

Nice. I usually go with dismantling the HRE. Were you gifted the lowlands after the BI, or was all of that conquest?

 

[Marquoz]

I went for (and got) the inheritance.

 

[The Macedonian]

You're spain, all of your missions want you to colonise early, why wouldn't you do it when its the easiest to do

Fair enough, but what are your goals? IMHO a stronger Spain ignores the colonial game and leaves all of that to Portugal. In the meanwhile, you can become the HRE Emperor, get the Burgundian Inheritance, crush the other colonizers and then come back to all the colonial ideas. Spain's armies are large and top-shelf, essentially wasted IMHO killing natives when they could be killing the French, English and Italians.

This is the downside of Mission Trees -- or perhaps more accurately the way players perceive the mission trees. You don't have to do them in order, do them at all or in many instances do the missions at a particular time. It's supposed to be IMHO a nice bonus, not railroad tracks.

But, I'm not actually suggesting that Spain ignore the mission tree -- just that Spain should prioritize the Right branches and leave the colonial branch for later.

In fact, most of those missions read "[X] Is owned by Spain or its non-tributory subject," so I believe that Portugal, as the PU of Spain can complete these missions for you.

 

[Marquoz]

IMHO a stronger Spain ignores the colonial game and leaves all of that to Portugal. In the meanwhile, you can become the HRE Emperor, get the Burgundian Inheritance, crush the other colonizers and then come back to all the colonial ideas. Spain's armies are large and top-shelf, essentially wasted IMHO killing natives when they could be killing the French, English and Italians.

It's not either-or. A good Spain player can and does do both.

 

[The Macedonian]

It's not either-or. A good Spain player can and does do both.

I'm probably the worst player to have ever achieved a world conquest, so I can't really disagree. I would have whole-heartedly agreed a couple patches ago. With the very aggressive native nations, I'm not sure that I could do both in 1.33.

My preferred Spain is to actually start as Aragon, keep Naples, snipe Byzantium and try to get the BI. I'll take pot shots at France while I'm at it and make sure Portugal doesn't ally anyone significant. Once I form Spain, I'll use that colonist from the national ideas to base jump around Africa and then into the East Indies as best I can. Hopefully, I'll have weakened France and the Ottomans and made progress towards becoming the HRE emperor or lining up a dismantling.

 

[YellowPress]

Fair enough, but what are your goals? IMHO a stronger Spain ignores the colonial game and leaves all of that to Portugal.

You trust portugal with its 3 or so colonists to colonise all colonial regions for you first? Along with ignoring the early mission claims to all of central and andean america?

In the meanwhile, you can become the HRE Emperor, get the Burgundian Inheritance, crush the other colonizers and then come back to all the colonial ideas. Spain's armies are large and top-shelf, essentially wasted IMHO killing natives when they could be killing the French, English and Italians.

You miss out on treasure fleets from 1520 or so, being the first colonist also means super cheap wars and ae for dev compared to mega coalitions in Italy. Spain's armies are large and the force limit from colonies can make you even larger as well as giving appropriate wealth for merc spamming

This is the downside of Mission Trees -- or perhaps more accurately the way players perceive the mission trees. You don't have to do them in order, do them at all or in many instances do the missions at a particular time. It's supposed to be IMHO a nice bonus, not railroad tracks.

Sure you dont have to do it at all, but considering the buff to colonial range from colonising canaries asap allowing you to get to mexico that much quicker, why not follow it?

But, I'm not actually suggesting that Spain ignore the mission tree -- just that Spain should prioritize the Right branches and leave the colonial branch for later.

In fact, most of those missions read "[X] Is owned by Spain or its non-tributory subject," so I believe that Portugal, as the PU of Spain can complete these missions for you.

A subjects subject doesnt fufill the conditions last i checked, so Spanish caribas wont work, you need to integrate them which takes ages if pued

 

[Kapi96]

Religious would be a good one. Finishing religious (or humanist) is one of the age objectives for the Age of Reformation so it'll help with age abilities too. But you'll probably have a lot of non-catholic conquests too, religious will make converting them cheaper and quicker. Plus the CB is awesome, plop a colony down next to Mali and then you can just holy war them for all their gold mines (25% less AE from the holy war CB too!), no need for claims. Also possible for territories in the Americas and Asia. Makes landgrabbing all over so much easier.

Influence would be pretty good too, reducing the cost of annexing your PUs would definitely help. Plus extra diplomats and stuff. Probably slightly better than Diplo due to the annex cost, if you didn't already have a bunch of PUs though then I'd say Diplo would be better.

Trade and quantity would be a bit of a waste. You're going to have ridiculous trade income sooner or later anyway. A bit more isn't going to make much difference when it's already hard to spend what you have. Your colonies will buff up your manpower and force limit too, you'll probably be under FL due to that anyway, no need for the extra quantity troops.