Next Expansion.. about WAR and TRADE

[CrowKing]

TRADE - Each duchy may have a raw material that varies according to geography and culture, perhaps we can process them and turn them into other products. We make armor from iron. We store them, use them for armored knights, or export them to fill the treasury.

WAR - Maybe the army could have wings and wing commanders as in ck 2. We can support each other depending on the course of the war, maybe we can give orders such as attack the center or fake retreat, maybe we can change the formation of our soldiers.

 

[kawamuratc]

TRADE - Each duchy may have a raw material that varies according to geography and culture, perhaps we can process them and turn them into other products. We make armor from iron. We store them, use them for armored knights, or export them to fill the treasury.

What you’re describing is a different genre. You want 4X or, if you want to get more in depth, City Builders/Resource Managers.

WAR - Maybe the army could have wings and wing commanders as in ck 2. We can support each other depending on the course of the war, maybe we can give orders such as attack the center or fake retreat, maybe we can change the formation of our soldiers.

What you’re describing is a different genre. You want Strategy, real time tactics or turned based. Or, if you want to get even more hands on, table top war games.

You should probably scratch your itch for the experiences you described with games that focus on them. I like flexibility and genre blending in my games, but more systems isn’t always more better.

 

[Call Me Vandal]

TRADE - Each duchy may have a raw material that varies according to geography and culture, perhaps we can process them and turn them into other products. We make armor from iron. We store them, use them for armored knights, or export them to fill the treasury.

WAR - Maybe the army could have wings and wing commanders as in ck 2. We can support each other depending on the course of the war, maybe we can give orders such as attack the center or fake retreat, maybe we can change the formation of our soldiers.

I have to say that Imperator has a tacked-on trade system and it is the most glaring waste of the player's time in the entire game. Of course, that's just my opinion, but the point is that mechanisms shouldn't add more weight to the game in such a way that potentially detracts from its enjoyment.

I wouldn't mind some more in-depth war though. I think the current system is serviceable, but I can see why people might think it's a bit basic.

 

[Kimlin1004]

You could do trade within the scope of a Grand Strategy game like CK3.
Trade: New resource Trade Value. Trade Value is increased by Buildings (Ports/Markets),trade agreements, development and a steward task. (Potentially a court position instead “Merchant” or “Trader”. This value increases monthly income and adds a bonus at specific levels.(Increase acceptance of marriage as example) Counties with higher Trade Value are a sought after by other realms.

New interaction for Trade agreement. Depending on targets development, innovations, income, and distance from realm, you will receive a monthly increase to trade value. Marriage alliance are automatically entered into a trade agreement. A diplomacy task can increase the strength of a trade agreement.

Spy Master: A new task to disrupt trade in a realm.

Dynasty Legacies: A new legacy based on Trade.

Lifestyle Traits: stewardship, trait to increase your realms trade value. Diplomacy, trait that increases acceptance of trade agreement. Intrigue, trait that allows for the disruption of a trade agreement.

Events: Event to find a trade route. Event during pilgrimage to make a trade agreement. So on.

As you can see a robust trade system can be created using existing systems and keeping with the spirit of CK3.

 

[Blk82]

The problem with "trade" in CK3 is that you don't really "own" your realm outside of your domain counties, and without cheesing succession, you can only keep your capital county long term. So, the trade systems will be constantly imploding because agreements break down. Also, what reason would have to NOT enter into trade agreements?

With regard to the interactions, the stewardship task of increasing trade is completely redundant with collecting taxes. The spy master task of disrupting trade would be useless and frustrating. It is useless because the spy master can do much more useful things than slightly decrease another character's income. And it would be frustrating because the target character might still get a significant amount of gold from random events, asking his head of faith for indulgences, and the like. Likewise, the diplomacy task of strengthening trade routes would be of little value, if it increases the income of one of your 50-odd trade routes from .10 to .12 gold per month.

Also, what about internal trade agreements? Internal tariffs were the rule in the medieval period. Player vassal management would create dozens of internal trade agreements, and easily hundreds if you include sub-vassals. Coordinating uniform and reasonable tolls along the Rhine was more important than negotiating trade agreements with distant kingdoms.

The concept of trade only really makes sense if you think in terms of tags and not in terms of characters. Once you look from a character perspective, it makes little sense.

 

[Bohemian_warlord]

Having trade as a focus for the next expansion would be great, but not the way you describe it. You need to look at what does nobility have to do with trade and what could be fun interactions between player and the system.

Better idea would be simply to give all holdings demand for goods and make some region-specific buildings that produce goods. Then add a new class of characters: traders, that organize ships and caravans between production and consumption centers. Traders should do the trading themselves, without player input. Players then can raid those ships and caravans, they can collect tolls from merchants passing by or they can set up demand in their holdings to purchase different kinds of spices, ivory, glass, furs and other cool things to increase their prestige and health (spices were considered medicine back then).

This will create lots of depth and flavour to the gameplay near mediterranean sea and the middle east. At the same time, it should be followed by overall decrease in player income in order to balance things out. For now, I would avoid trade of low-value items like iron or grain, unless one day devs decide to add expansion focused on agriculture and base level economy in general. Slave trade can be added, but it is problematic from the moral/political side of things.

 

[FishieFan]

What you’re describing is a different genre. You want 4X or, if you want to get more in depth, City Builders/Resource Managers.



What you’re describing is a different genre. You want Strategy, real time tactics or turned based. Or, if you want to get even more hands on, table top war games.

You should probably scratch your itch for the experiences you described with games that focus on them. I like flexibility and genre blending in my games, but more systems isn’t always more better.

What is vic2 in your mind. A 4x or a grand strat? Resources make grand strat grand strat, no mass cav armies if youre isolated from horse trade and environment cant make horses *cough* southern india *cough*

 

[Bohemian_warlord]

What is vic2 in your mind. A 4x or a grand strat? Resources make grand strat grand strat, no mass cav armies if youre isolated from horse trade and environment cant make horses *cough* southern india *cough

You can fix that via static restrictions. You dont need a dynamic system just so that indians couldnt hire cavalry men at arms.

 

[FishieFan]

You can fix that via static restrictions. You dont need a dynamic system just so that indians couldnt hire cavalry men at arms.

You do, because otherwise this fluid and dynamic game still has hard rules

 

[Bohemian_warlord]

You do, because otherwise this fluid and dynamic game still has hard rules

Thats cool, but fluid and dynamic systems are very difficult to design. There are static aspects of the game that would use the effort for greater effect on historical accuracy and gamplay. Like demographics (long term impact of wars and plagues, national minorities) or agriculture (herds, fertility, harvests, warm/cold periods in medieval), managment of strategic resources ala Civilization is just fairly low on the list of priorities.

 

[johnty5]

TRADE - Each duchy may have a raw material that varies according to geography and culture, perhaps we can process them and turn them into other products. We make armor from iron. We store them, use them for armored knights, or export them to fill the treasury.

The devs stated that this isn't their vision for trade in CK3 - and, to be honest, I'm very happy it's not.

CK3 is about characters, not resource management - and certainly not Civ-style, super-abstracted "need x resource to build y unit" resource management.

 

[FishieFan]

Thats cool, but fluid and dynamic systems are very difficult to design. There are static aspects of the game that would use the effort for greater effect on historical accuracy and gamplay. Like demographics (long term impact of wars and plagues, national minorities) or agriculture (herds, fertility, harvests, warm/cold periods in medieval), managment of strategic resources ala Civilization is just fairly low on the list of priorities.

Is trade not a demographic? Merchants being how jewish and armenian pops be represented in many cultures? Are horses not found in herds?

 

[dannazgui]

I think would be cool to return the army managament that CK2 had, The army in Ck2 had left wing, center and right wing each had its own command

 

[kawamuratc]

What is vic2 in your mind. A 4x or a grand strat? Resources make grand strat grand strat, no mass cav armies if youre isolated from horse trade and environment cant make horses *cough* southern india *cough*

Never played Vic, couldn’t tell you.

 

[FishieFan]

Never played Vic, couldn’t tell you.

It has trade goods, trade goods are made by pops, are converted into other goods by pops and factories. It is seen as the pinnacle of a gsg