Next DLC should be premium tutorial.

[Olaus Petrus]

Hmmm...not really sure I'm for it, but in defense of the OP's idea there sure are a number of overpriced guides out there for games...many of them not so great. I suppose this is similar just a different medium. Before the (public) Net and print guides, I remember making $1.99 a minute (or similar) calls to Sierra -- back in the day, for tips.

Collector's edition of EUIII had printed strategy guide and EU: Rome had .pdf strategy guide. I did read those and manuals once when games were first published, but many things have changed since writing and those aren't that useful anymore. CKII has no strategy guide and it's manual is considerably shorter (CKII manual is about 50 pager when Rome manual is about 100 pages and EUIII manual is about 150 pages.), but despite all that I feel that manual already explains the essential things which you need to know before you start playing. Only thing which I find often lacking with Paradox games is that they don't usually write proper manuals for expansions and you'll have to find everything yourself.

But for those who want to know how everything works (numbers and stuff) I recommend FAQ subforum. There's rather detailed stuff.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Collector's edition of EUIII had printed strategy guide and EU: Rome had .pdf strategy guide. I did read those and manuals once when games were first published, but many things have changed since writing and those aren't that useful anymore. CKII has no strategy guide and it's manual is considerably shorter (CKII manual is about 50 pager when Rome manual is about 100 pages and EUIII manual is about 150 pages.), but despite all that I feel that manual already explains the essential things which you need to know before you start playing. Only thing which I find often lacking with Paradox games is that they don't usually write proper manuals for expansions and you'll have to find everything yourself.

But for those who want to know how everything works (numbers and stuff) I recommend FAQ subforum. There's rather detailed stuff.

The thing is I think the market for something like this wouldn't be forum dwellers. Most/many -A- tittles have strategy guides (many $20+) -- though I know the OP was talking about a tutorial, which can be similar. It's not terribly difficult to update an e-guide and if it's a DLC that shouldn't be too difficult either. The problem is that most guides tends to more like walkthroughs and given the dynamic nature of the events/game etc. it might be a little more difficult to pull this off for CK2 than some other game genres.

I suppose an LP format would work. Basically like what's on YouTube or random places but done in pro manner that is easy to find and organized. I've seen some nice free stuff by devs for subscription-based games and given this is not, it's probably not unreasonable to put a price tag on it.

Some people hate Youtube as much as forums especially when you go to search for something and it's in the wrong language or poorly done and the multi-part sequences are not in order.

I honestly don't know what the market is for this but it's not an extreme idea, in my opinion, is basically what I'm saying. The DLC format is a bit different, and I'd prefer it to be free, but many people will spend money to save time. And, it could be a little costly to produce something like this. Conversely, it could be an image breaker...it's hard to say without field research. All things considered, the best route would probably be a third-part producer for something like this.

 

[nestorius]

There is a good strategy guide for CK2 in the FAQ section

 

[Olaus Petrus]

There is a good strategy guide for CK2 in the FAQ section

It's not traditional strategy guide which explains to new player how you should play and which tactics work, but it's more a detailed analysis how mathematics of the game work for those who already know how to play the game.

 

[Ahaz Flagg]

Wait, what? You want to pay for a new turtorial? Not a good idea from a business stand point. The tutorial worked fine for me, anyone playing these types of games knows how to use, wiki and or game forums. That and playing is all you need, I do know if I was new to this game, and saw an option to buy a tutorial, it would not be bought. I would pay 1.99 for a demense overlay though.

 

[nestorius]

demesne overlay?

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Compared to the existing tutorial, a flowing one with the possibility to exit and enter at one point would be better and it should focus on one aspect of the game before going to another first.
Currently the tutorial is hardly userfriendly and dividing it into several hardness levels is kinda silly as you need to know everything in the tutorial anyway.

Conclusion:
They should rework their tutorial, bundle all aspects together and make it more like a movie and keep a focus. I prefer good voiceovers and simple text as well.
The TotalWar series might not be as complex as the CK series, but the tutorial did a good job. Oh and before i forget an ingame glossary would be great.

I know this means work to do and updating the tutorial and glossary isnt a task done quick, but how else should Paradox be able to gain a broader and especially satisfied fan/customer base.

 

[leksu]

CKII is pretty easy to learn though, no tutorials needed.

 

[Prime624]

Conclusion:
They should rework their tutorial, bundle all aspects together and make it more like a movie and keep a focus. I prefer good voiceovers and simple text as well.
The TotalWar series might not be as complex as the CK series, but the tutorial did a good job. Oh and before i forget an ingame glossary would be great.

I know this means work to do and updating the tutorial and glossary isnt a task done quick, but how else should Paradox be able to gain a broader and especially satisfied fan/customer base.

The Total War tutorials are beautiful. They're the best part of those games, and have been since Medieval 2. But anyways, the game doesn't need a tutorial, because of people like the ones on this thread. They are all the help anyone needs.

I would buy an in-game glossary though, like Civ V and Total War: Shogun 2

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

...... But anyways, the game doesn't need a tutorial, because of people like the ones on this thread. They are all the help anyone needs.

I would buy an in-game glossary though, like Civ V and Total War: Shogun 2

You shouldnt need to go to a forum and invest a pretty big amount of time to understand the mechanics.
Guessing helps and makes you capable to deal with most stuff happening, but it can be very upsetting/unpleasant to not know. If the player is stubborn enough, it can be very rewarding and get Paradox another dedicated fan, but what if not ?

 

[nestorius]

Compared to the existing tutorial, a flowing one with the possibility to exit and enter at one point would be better and it should focus on one aspect of the game before going to another first.
Currently the tutorial is hardly userfriendly and dividing it into several hardness levels is kinda silly as you need to know everything in the tutorial anyway.

Conclusion:
They should rework their tutorial, bundle all aspects together and make it more like a movie and keep a focus. I prefer good voiceovers and simple text as well.
The TotalWar series might not be as complex as the CK series, but the tutorial did a good job. Oh and before i forget an ingame glossary would be great.

I know this means work to do and updating the tutorial and glossary isnt a task done quick, but how else should Paradox be able to gain a broader and especially satisfied fan/customer base.

While not perfect I personally think the worst tutorials are movies. While the best tutorials are the ones when you have to do something. The Sins of a Solar empire tutorial is also quite good (though a quite different game) because it basically leads you through a mini campaign. Overall I still think a tutorial dlc is really not needed. The current ones while not the best are better than most paradox has done.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

While not perfect I personally think the worst tutorials are movies. While the best tutorials are the ones when you have to do something. The Sins of a Solar empire tutorial is also quite good (though a quite different game) because it basically leads you through a mini campaign. Overall I still think a tutorial dlc is really not needed. The current ones while not the best are better than most paradox has done.

Thats why i said "like" a movie, not as a movie. "Flow" is the meaning i supposed to say.....and i agree, pure movie tutorials are horrible, interaction is best.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Thats why i said "like" a movie, not as a movie. "Flow" is the meaning i supposed to say.....and i agree, pure movie tutorials are horrible, interaction is best.

Personally I prefer well written and printed manual (.pdf manuals are awkward to read while playing) and tooltips, because those you can see while you play. I haven't played tutorial which didn't suck, because most of the time tutorials treat you like you're a complete idiot who has difficulties to understand even the most basic concepts without long-winded explanations and you have to do ridiculously simple tasks to advance in tutorial.

 

[Ordo Impavidus]

I agree with OP that the tutorials produced by PI are total garbage. Yes that is what he meant.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Personally I prefer well written and printed manual (.pdf manuals are awkward to read while playing) and tooltips, because those you can see while you play. I haven't played tutorial which didn't suck, because most of the time tutorials treat you like you're a complete idiot who has difficulties to understand even the most basic concepts without long-winded explanations and you have to do ridiculously simple tasks to advance in tutorial.

Ahh, i see you remember the goold old days when we got good hardback books with nice pictures, made copies of the pages and set with those in front of the screen. Those were the days.
I believe the reason why we dont get any books anymore, is that they're actually more expensive than proper tutorials.
Instead we neither get good bookish manuals nor proper tutorials.
Sad really. Sad business, i know more money left for development, but a nice manual is part of "diving in"/immersion and by thus important how a game is received.

Though, its said that the young generation doesnt/can't read anymore anyway, so....



ADDED: I forgot, you're absolutely right that most tutorials waste too much time on silly things like basic and pretty obvious GUI stuff instead of invisible mechanics.

 

[Kurospidey]

Charge money for a tutorial is not a good idea. It's like recognizing how they messed it up in the first place and now charge you for the fix.

 

[nitroholic]

Charging money for a tutorial isn't a very good idea. That being said, Paradox could improve their tutorials. I think the main problem with them is that they aren't interactive enough.

 

[ryousei]

I would buy an in-game glossary though, like Civ V and Total War: Shogun 2

In game glossary with as much content as civililopedia would be so good. There are many mechanics not well explained in CK2. One I can think of on top of my head is how does levy reinforcement rate work?

 

[ASPGolan]

I don't have experience with other of their titles. But I have seen them. I wouldn't play EU3 because is hard to learn (especially as me, coming from total war titles and other types of strategy games). I found CK2 much better before I decided to start playing it. And this is obvious from playthroughs on the internet. Applies to HoI3 as well, but that game has more depth related to warfare (so maybe is more worth the effort of learning).

I agree that they should improve tutorials - for future titles maybe. But it should be included in the game costs. My experience, however is that a game like CK2 is easy to learn while playing it (maybe Pdox first title that I could say that) and to invest more of your time in longer tutorials would be wrong - my only problem is that I found the tutorials not as educating as the forum, youtube clips.

Modding is difficult and had some surprising experiences - maybe some improvements there?