News from America

[moscal]

I suggest rewrite Sunset Invasion DLC with use new China Mechanism.

China Empire can have policy open/closed/expansionist. Aztec Empire should have similar policy but based on faction. Ruling faction can be "Proeuropean", "Antieuropean" and "Uninterested".

When ruling faction is "Proeuropean" - aztec countries (invasion forces and others possible new countries) in Europe don't get financial or military support but they get diplomacy bonus. Emperor can do business deal with european rules, and this lead to economic, military and/or technology bonuses for sites of interest. If there are no Aztec states - Europe is not threatened by invasion.

"Antieuropean" faction works completely the other way - invasion forces and other aztec countries in Europe get financial and military support. Deals with european lords is lock. Aztec countries in Europe can get technological or prosperity maluses (similar to maluses from expel jewish). If there are no Aztec states - Europe is threatened by invasion.

"Uninterested" faction works by isolationism. Europeans and Aztecs (in Europe) don't have chances to interact with the emperor. Invasion is impossible.

Events in China (like a "Invaded by Jurchens) probably will be able to be copied to Aztecs but with other names (eg. not "Jurchens" but "Apaches"). Several individual events should also be possible eg. Flower War.

Below is a possible reworked interface.

Spoiler

 

[TheDungen]

Aztec invasion is such a lame dlc lol

I like the idea but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Had a dad]

stop feeding the derail attempt

 

[TurtleShroom]

Lol, why? Montezuma II was friendly for christian Spaniards - MII was even baptized. Many non-aztec tribes was frendly to Spaniards and they collaborated with Cortes. His brother, Cuitláhuac, and royal opposition was frantic anti-christians and this led to the collapse of the state of the Aztecs.

That is in the RL timeline. These Aztecs invaded Europe in order to continue the Nourishment of their blood gods. (Remember, the Aztec religion believed that the cessation of human sacrifice would cause the sun to go black and Creation to literally restart itself.)

In "Sunset Invasion", the Aztecs had, and have, a strict zero-tolerance opinion on all Europeans unless and until you assimilate and convert them to a civilized.

 

[moscal]

But you must remember, that Mesoamerican Empire can have own internal/american problems, and plans of conquest of Europe can be re-evaluation.

Example events
1200 - first invasion (failure)
1220 - second invasion (failure)
1240 - great Zapotec rebel (victory)
1260 - invated by Apaches (medium looted)
1280 - war with Mayans (failure)
1300 - smallpox plague in America

In this situation Emperor should seek peaceful possibilities reconstruction power own Empire (transfer of knowledge, trade etc. with distant countries, which aren't a direct threat - Teotihuacan have more problems with close neighbors so collaboration with distant countries could be acceptable for monarch)

IMO - if the situation in the country isn't stable Mesoamerican Empire should have possible to have friendly relations with Old-World-Peoples. Stability in Aztec world should lead to aggressive actions.

 

[madhorselover]

There are already events that Aztec conquered all of NA, introduction of horses gave them final push. And again as i said most logical thing is base their state and behaviour on their only rival in new world.

 

[moscal]

And this is good time to rework few elements from SI. This one. Second - nearly all empires had periods of decline and if eg, Mongol Empire could break into several parts - Aztec Empire also can. Rage-mode is boring (look at Germany controled by AI in HoI4)...

My way give more options and not lead to linear scenarios (in style of EU1/2).

 

[ScienceNerd]

If they were to do that they should make them not Aztecs too. I would recommend them being the empire of Teotihuacan, or actually no need for them to be anything. The emperor in the west would be the emperor at Teotihuacan and his western protectorate would simply be the sunset invasion.


Well they could make contact or not but if they make contact the question is, is it trade or an invasion? Or perhaps the invasion could always be the way it starts and then their policy can change over time after the initial invasion.


Nice except they shouldn't be called Aztecs because the Aztecs are only really around in the last 50 years of the game's timeframe, instead they should simply be the sunset invasion.


Eh both the aztecs and inca are mostly outside the game's timeframe. There was actually sort of a power vaccum in the americas in this timeframe, but since we're talkign alternative history, a Teotihuacan (sort of the mesoamerican rome) which never fell would make a great story.

We have news of the Inca Empire fighting the Aztecs back in South America, what if they get some slice of European Politics?:
If the Sunset Invasion started, the Inca, some time later, should start to interfere in their conquest there, just like Europeans interfered with the native americans alliances when they arrived. Such interference could be manifested in negative and positive ways for Europe:
POSITIVE

• If the Aztecs invade someone, the Incas could loan a decently sized regiment (20-50k probably) to the defender that is disbanded after the war regardless of the result of the war
  • Such regiment could either be free, or can be hired through an event. What should or shouldn't make the difference between the two is debateable
• The war with the incas could force the aztecs to withdraw one of their doomstacks temporarily.
  • The doomstack could later return with half or 3/4 of his strength
• Were you to capture the leader of the Aztecs you could receive a ransom offer from the Incas, wich would make you lose quite a bit of relations with the aztecs but who cares amirite?
  • Should you capture the Emperor or one of his relatives in visit or in service in the "Colony" that could make some really good event chains

MISCELLANOUS

• Events such as shipwrecked treasure chests, officers and nobles, religious tensions...
• American Mercenary Companies

NEGATIVES

• Well, they could invade as well.
• A whole lot of Inca adventurers
• Epidemics coming from them

Better ideas than aztecs and incas would be Teotihuacan or (fictional) unified Maya, and Wari/Tiwanaku/Moche. Other than that, agree with everything said in quoted posts

 

[ScienceNerd]

But you must remember, that Mesoamerican Empire can have own internal/american problems, and plans of conquest of Europe can be re-evaluation.

Example events
1200 - first invasion (failure)
1220 - second invasion (failure)
1240 - great Zapotec rebel (victory)
1260 - invated by Apaches (medium looted)
1280 - war with Mayans (failure)
1300 - smallpox plague in America

In this situation Emperor should seek peaceful possibilities reconstruction power own Empire (transfer of knowledge, trade etc. with distant countries, which aren't a direct threat - Teotihuacan have more problems with close neighbors so collaboration with distant countries could be acceptable for monarch)

IMO - if the situation in the country isn't stable Mesoamerican Empire should have possible to have friendly relations with Old-World-Peoples. Stability in Aztec world should lead to aggressive actions.

Maybe a series of trade events, Sunsets reform religion, Sunsets influenced by Euro culture/religion, etc.

 

[moscal]

Maybe a series of trade events, Sunsets reform religion, Sunsets influenced by Euro culture/religion, etc.

This list was a potential scenario, when "Sunset Empire should be non-agressive for Old-World peoples".

But ofc - proposals of events are always good

 

[ScienceNerd]

This list was a potential scenario, when "Sunset Empire should be non-agressive for Old-World peoples".

But ofc - proposals of events are always good

True...

 

[Baron of Red]

It would be kind of cool if Vineland was added in to not only for the converter but also in sunset invasion.

 

[moscal]

It would be kind of cool if Vineland was added in to not only for the converter but also in sunset invasion.

How? Vinland is too small to be offmap_powers mechanism. New continent is excluded.

 

[Madijeis]

It would be kind of cool if Vineland was added in to not only for the converter but also in sunset invasion.

Well, if you have the Old Gods DLC and are playing with a norse character, you should receive an event wich says that the aztecs stole drakkars from Vinland.

 

[TurtleShroom]

It's a shame they won't use the JD features for SI.

 

[Fitzjacob]

Some additions to the expansion it terms of events and function would be great and all, but for the time being I think that just porting the new off-map empire system, without adding anything else new, would still be worth it. Future interaction with the Aztec Emperor (offering up people as sacrifice, asking for boons, etc) could be added later, just having him as an off-map entity (especially since all the events refer to him as such) and having the title a bit harder (if at all possible) to claim is sufficient for the time being.

Just one caveat: using the off map system would make the Aztec Expeditionary Forces (or however they would be referred to in game) unplayable, at least directly, for the same reasons that the Western Protectorate is unplayable. I'd be fine with this as you can still play a vassal or a tributary, but would everyone else?

 

[moscal]

Just one caveat: using the off map system would make the Aztec Expeditionary Forces (or however they would be referred to in game) unplayable, at least directly, for the same reasons that the Western Protectorate is unplayable. I'd be fine with this as you can still play a vassal or a tributary, but would everyone else?

Players always will be cry. "We need China in CK2!" -> give for CK2 China -> "This is false China" -> give Far East superregion -> "This China is broken!" and this way lead to eternity. Or other example - early start date. CM scenario is broken and anybody know it - still great number of players want earlier start. And I have 100% certainty, that this "earlier start" would be worse than CM scenario