News from America

[moscal]

I suggest rewrite Sunset Invasion DLC with use new China Mechanism.

China Empire can have policy open/closed/expansionist. Aztec Empire should have similar policy but based on faction. Ruling faction can be "Proeuropean", "Antieuropean" and "Uninterested".

When ruling faction is "Proeuropean" - aztec countries (invasion forces and others possible new countries) in Europe don't get financial or military support but they get diplomacy bonus. Emperor can do business deal with european rules, and this lead to economic, military and/or technology bonuses for sites of interest. If there are no Aztec states - Europe is not threatened by invasion.

"Antieuropean" faction works completely the other way - invasion forces and other aztec countries in Europe get financial and military support. Deals with european lords is lock. Aztec countries in Europe can get technological or prosperity maluses (similar to maluses from expel jewish). If there are no Aztec states - Europe is threatened by invasion.

"Uninterested" faction works by isolationism. Europeans and Aztecs (in Europe) don't have chances to interact with the emperor. Invasion is impossible.

Events in China (like a "Invaded by Jurchens) probably will be able to be copied to Aztecs but with other names (eg. not "Jurchens" but "Apaches"). Several individual events should also be possible eg. Flower War.

Below is a possible reworked interface.

Spoiler

 

[Rags17]

I think your suggestion is helpful but I do think that a hypothetical off board Aztec empire would be quite different to an off board Chinese empire. The Aztecs would/should either come or not - there is no middle ground. China on the other hand is and was always there, the only question was whether or not they could be bothered to actually leave their geographic pocket.

Of course once the Aztecs set themselves up in Europe your suggestion would make perfect sense

 

[moscal]

Sure - this mechanism should be lock when Sunset Invasion don't have start.

 

[Aztlantix]

Aztec government should be Eastern protectorate or expedition, whatever. I hardly understand how oversea empire manages to directly control such faraway land, especially when even China struggles on that matter

 

[moscal]

First army should have name like a "Aztec Invasion Forces" or "Aztec service". Non-dynastic country similar to mercenary countries, but send moneys and peoples to Teotihuacan. Others armies can be "Aztec Invasion Forces" (when in Europe not exist "AIF") or adventurers. Adventurers don't have to be subjects of aztec emperor but AIF always is. Adventurers and AIF can have conflicts. New-world adventurers can hve not-aztec culture (eg. Maya or Zapotec) but AIF always have aztec culture.

Pagans, zoroastrians and hindu should can send own kins to sacrifices similar any can send kins to China emperor as eunuch or concubine.

 

[madhorselover]

I don't see Aztec having any peaceful interaction with old world. And as i stated in other thread it should be Inca instead.
For example some time after invasion interaction with them open up.
So you can trade with them for their advanced tech(get tech points or firearms artefacts) and gold in exchange for ships and levies percentage, retinues or even provinces. Or make mutual protection pacts against Aztec or other powers.

 

[ScienceNerd]

I think your suggestion is helpful but I do think that a hypothetical off board Aztec empire would be quite different to an off board Chinese empire. The Aztecs would/should either come or not - there is no middle ground. China on the other hand is and was always there, the only question was whether or not they could be bothered to actually leave their geographic pocket.

Of course once the Aztecs set themselves up in Europe your suggestion would make perfect sense

Agreed

 

[moscal]

@madhorselover - IMO yes Montezuma II collaborated with Cortez and was unfavorable for agressive solution to Spanish problem. Additionally Aztec Empire is "young empire" while China Empire are "old empire", so Aztecs are more vulnerable to internal collapses and constant aggressive politics to "Old World" is (IMO) impossible.

AND. Incas Empire lived in "west coast" and re-orientation on "east world" is too hard (IMO). I would see a greater probability to interaction with renovatio League of Mayapan.

 

[TheDungen]

If they were to do that they should make them not Aztecs too. I would recommend them being the empire of Teotihuacan, or actually no need for them to be anything. The emperor in the west would be the emperor at Teotihuacan and his western protectorate would simply be the sunset invasion.

I think your suggestion is helpful but I do think that a hypothetical off board Aztec empire would be quite different to an off board Chinese empire. The Aztecs would/should either come or not - there is no middle ground. China on the other hand is and was always there, the only question was whether or not they could be bothered to actually leave their geographic pocket.

Of course once the Aztecs set themselves up in Europe your suggestion would make perfect sense

Well they could make contact or not but if they make contact the question is, is it trade or an invasion? Or perhaps the invasion could always be the way it starts and then their policy can change over time after the initial invasion.

First army should have name like a "Aztec Invasion Forces" or "Aztec service". Non-dynastic country similar to mercenary countries, but send moneys and peoples to Teotihuacan. Others armies can be "Aztec Invasion Forces" (when in Europe not exist "AIF") or adventurers. Adventurers don't have to be subjects of aztec emperor but AIF always is. Adventurers and AIF can have conflicts. New-world adventurers can hve not-aztec culture (eg. Maya or Zapotec) but AIF always have aztec culture.

Pagans, zoroastrians and hindu should can send own kins to sacrifices similar any can send kins to China emperor as eunuch or concubine.

Nice except they shouldn't be called Aztecs because the Aztecs are only really around in the last 50 years of the game's timeframe, instead they should simply be the sunset invasion.

I don't see Aztec having any peaceful interaction with old world. And as i stated in other thread it should be Inca instead.
For example some time after invasion interaction with them open up.
So you can trade with them for their advanced tech(get tech points or firearms artefacts) and gold in exchange for ships and levies percentage, retinues or even provinces. Or make mutual protection pacts against Aztec or other powers.

Eh both the aztecs and inca are mostly outside the game's timeframe. There was actually sort of a power vaccum in the americas in this timeframe, but since we're talkign alternative history, a Teotihuacan (sort of the mesoamerican rome) which never fell would make a great story.

 

[madhorselover]

Indeed its about alternative sunset invasion history. And by the time its started Nahua are already accomplished prosperous empire. Point of divergence as far as i remember norse expedition(?)

 

[TheDungen]

Indeed its about alternative sunset invasion history. And by the time its started Nahua are already accomplished prosperous empire. Point of divergence as far as i remember norse expedition(?)

But at that point the aztecs are still living in continental north america much loser to the west coast than to the east coast.

A restored Teotihuacan makes some sense, Toltecs make some sense. Aztecs in the 10th-11th century does not.

 

[TurtleShroom]

Seconded, but the interface should ONLY exist AFTER the Aztecs arrive, and they should NEVER be friendly to non-Pagans.

 

[moscal]

Nice except they shouldn't be called Aztecs because the Aztecs are only really around in the last 50 years of the game's timeframe, instead they should simply be the sunset invasion.

Mental shortcut in game many elements exists as "aztec" (eg. religion). I know, that SI scenario is totally fantasy (Aztecs began to build their country when the University of Oxford was an important international school) and would be nice few changes, but IMO Pdx will not do it.

they should NEVER be friendly to non-Pagans.

Lol, why? Montezuma II was friendly for christian Spaniards - MII was even baptized. Many non-aztec tribes was frendly to Spaniards and they collaborated with Cortes. His brother, Cuitláhuac, and royal opposition was frantic anti-christians and this led to the collapse of the state of the Aztecs.

Seconded, but the interface should ONLY exist AFTER the Aztecs arrive

Read my post no 3 in this topic.

Sure - this mechanism should be lock when Sunset Invasion don't have start.

 

[Madijeis]

We have news of the Inca Empire fighting the Aztecs back in South America, what if they get some slice of European Politics?:
If the Sunset Invasion started, the Inca, some time later, should start to interfere in their conquest there, just like Europeans interfered with the native americans alliances when they arrived. Such interference could be manifested in negative and positive ways for Europe:
POSITIVE

• If the Aztecs invade someone, the Incas could loan a decently sized regiment (20-50k probably) to the defender that is disbanded after the war regardless of the result of the war
  • Such regiment could either be free, or can be hired through an event. What should or shouldn't make the difference between the two is debateable
• The war with the incas could force the aztecs to withdraw one of their doomstacks temporarily.
  • The doomstack could later return with half or 3/4 of his strength
• Were you to capture the leader of the Aztecs you could receive a ransom offer from the Incas, wich would make you lose quite a bit of relations with the aztecs but who cares amirite?
  • Should you capture the Emperor or one of his relatives in visit or in service in the "Colony" that could make some really good event chains

MISCELLANOUS

• Events such as shipwrecked treasure chests, officers and nobles, religious tensions...
• American Mercenary Companies

NEGATIVES

• Well, they could invade as well.
• A whole lot of Inca adventurers
• Epidemics coming from them

 

[TheDungen]

Mental shortcut in game many elements exists as "aztec" (eg. religion). I know, that SI scenario is totally fantasy (Aztecs began to build their country when the University of Oxford was an important international school) and would be nice few changes, but IMO Pdx will not do it.

I understand but I will never accept catering to public ignorance.

 

[Madijeis]

I understand but I will never accept catering to public ignorance.

Sunset invasion is a DLC about 11th Century aztecs stealing drakkars from vinland and meanwhile fighting with native north americans ,thus mastering horseback combat, and incas with gunpowder weapons they decided they should invade Europe. With their Emperor leading the invasion. Seems kinda late to make some historical rant.

 

[TheDungen]

Sunset invasion is a DLC about 11th Century aztecs stealing drakkars from vinland and meanwhile fighting with native north americans ,thus mastering horseback combat, and incas with gunpowder weapons they decided they should invade Europe. With their Emperor leading the invasion. Seems kinda late to make some historical rant.

Well like I have said many times previously I find th specifics of the DLC to be pretty stupid but the idea of the new world being the ones who make contact is actually not that unbelievable if as I have said previously the empire of Teotihuacan had not collapsed it may well have beaten the Europeans to make the voyage over the Atlantic, without the help of vikings. Even the toltecs may have ended up being capable if they had not collapsed.

 

[moscal]

Relax, gentlemens... Aesthetic trifles isn't important - this can be do in 5 minute BUT new mechanic, scripts, events etc. not. So first we should give for Pdx big signal, that we are interested a modernization SI

 

[pcuser1584789]

Aztec invasion is such a lame dlc lol

 

[RedBaronFlyer]

Aztec invasion is such a lame dlc lol

Thank you for enlightening us with this revelation. Truly you have changed all our opinions on the matter and as such have made this suggestion irrelevant. I'd dare say, Sir or Madam, you wield your words like a knight wields a sword.

/s