Newfoundland Post-WTT

[ArrowRL201]

I'm kind of annoyed that Newfoundland is never able to become a Canadian province in the vanilla game - the Bases for Battleships focus usually results in it becoming a part of the USA.

Am curious if there will be a way for Britain to decide the fate of Newfoundland via the new Decisions system, whether that's remaining a part of Britain, joining the USA, independence, joining Canada as per history, or something else.

 

[Thrac]

Canadian Newfoundland for the win!

 

[Secret Master]

Bases for Battleships

Do you mean Destroyers for Bases?

 

[CharlesV]

Do you mean Destroyers for Bases?

Bases for Battleships sounds better

 

[Fulmen]

The Dominion of Newfoundland joining the Dominion of Canada is outside the game's time frame.

That being said it shouldn't join the US either. Sounds like a bug.

 

[Armacalic]

The Dominion of Newfoundland joining the Dominion of Canada is outside the game's time frame.

That being said it shouldn't join the US either. Sounds like a bug.

Not a bug, it's literally in the focus description, give Destroyers for some UK holdings, like Jamaica and Newfoundland.

 

[Meglok]

I'm kind of annoyed that Newfoundland is never able to become a Canadian province in the vanilla game - the Bases for Battleships focus usually results in it becoming a part of the USA.

Am curious if there will be a way for Britain to decide the fate of Newfoundland via the new Decisions system, whether that's remaining a part of Britain, joining the USA, independence, joining Canada as per history, or something else.

It goes to the USA to reflect the "occupation" by the US during WW2. They had troops and bases in Goose Bay, Gander, Stephenville, Argentia, and St Johns. Newfoundland going to Canada is basically out of the base time frame and the mechanics don't allow sharing of territory. So it is easier to just give it to the US to administer thru the Destroyers for Bases event, which reflects what happened historically during the war.

 

[HappyOdin]

Newfoundland attained dominion status in 1907 and was fully self-governing from 1931. Its status was equivalent to that of Canada, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and greater than that of the British Raj. It is strange that it is not separately playable, especially after TfW fleshed out the dominions. HoI4 treats it as a bargaining chip in the British focus tree, but it could have been so much more.

 

[Fulmen]

Newfoundland attained dominion status in 1907 and was fully self-governing from 1931. Its status was equivalent to that of Canada, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and greater than that of the British Raj. It is strange that it is not separately playable, especially after TfW fleshed out the dominions. HoI4 treats it as a bargaining chip in the British focus tree, but it could have been so much more.

Their self-governance was suspended in 1934 and replaced by direct British rule until 1949.

EDIT:

From Wikipedia:

As a small country which relied primarily upon the export of fish, paper, and minerals, Newfoundland was hit very hard by the Great Depression. Economic frustration combined with anger over government corruption led to a general dissatisfaction with democratic government. On 5 April 1932, a crowd of 10,000 people marched on the Colonial Building (seat of the House of Assembly) and forced Prime Minister Squires to flee. Squires lost an election held later in 1932. The next government, led once more by Alderdice, called upon the British government to take direct control until Newfoundland could become self-sustaining. The United Kingdom, concerned over Newfoundland's likelihood of defaulting on its war-debt payments, established the Newfoundland Royal Commission, headed by a Scottish peer, William Mackenzie, 1st Baron Amulree. Its report, released in 1933, assessed Newfoundland's political culture as intrinsically corrupt and its economic prospects as bleak, and advocated the abolition of responsible government and its replacement by a Commission of the British Government. Acting on the report's recommendations, Alderdice's government voted itself out of existence in December 1933.[2]

In 1934, the Dominion suspended Newfoundland's self-governing status and the Commission of Government took control. Newfoundland remained a dominion in name only.[9] Newfoundland was ruled by a governor who reported to the colonial secretary in London. The legislature was suspended.[10]

The severe worldwide Great Depressionpersisted until the Second World War broke out in 1939.

 

[HappyOdin]

Their self-governance was suspended in 1934 and replaced by direct British rule until 1949.

Yes, indeed, but why make the British Raj playable then?

 

[Fulmen]

Yes, indeed, but why make the British Raj playable then?

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I don't think the around half a dozen man commission governing Newfoundland was exactly on par with the Raj in scope or importance. Or autonomy for that matter.

The in-game Raj also includes the numerous autonomous Princely States in British India.

 

[HappyOdin]

@Fulmen My parade is an all-weather event.

I agree that Newfoundland is not on par with the Raj in terms of importance to the game, but I think it's strange it was not given more character in an update based mainly on the dominions.

 

[NVI]

@Fulmen My parade is an all-weather event.

I agree that Newfoundland is not on par with the Raj in terms of importance to the game, but I think it's strange it was not given more character in an update based mainly on the dominions.

Then again, neither was the Irish Free State, another dominion (until 1937). (Don't get me wrong, I think both ought to get more character eventually.)

 

[Lord of Beer]

The problem with Newfoundland is that its an easy base from which the conquerors of mainland Britain (Germany, Human) can access North America. I think a decision should be added to Canada to seize Newfoundland in the event that Britain has lost its capital. It will require the conquerors to build up a navy and transport invasion troops across the Atlantic.

Overall I'm hoping decisions are added to Commonwealth countries for holders of the TFV DLC. It should be a fairly straightforward bit of work for a content designer, and could help out the 'mixed' rating that that DLC currently has on Steam.

 

[Telenil]

The problem with Newfoundland is that its an easy base from which the conquerors of mainland Britain (Germany, Human) can access North America. I think a decision should be added to Canada to seize Newfoundland in the event that Britain has lost its capital. It will require the conquerors to build up a navy and transport invasion troops across the Atlantic.

Canada also capitulates if someone takes London early. Even if Newfoundland turns Canadian, you can just puppet Canada.

 

[NVI]

Canada also capitulates if someone takes London early. Even if Newfoundland turns Canadian, you can just puppet Canada.

Which of course doesn't make all that much sense. Hopefully the major/minor system will be rethought at some point.

 

[GPounda]

A agree on both points here. . .

NL should go to Canada if/when Britain falls
If/when Britain falls, prior to the US deciding to join, then the Commonwealth should fight on and not automatically capitulate.

IMHO - If/when Britain falls then the Commonwealth should force the US to take an active leadership role in the war (like an "Enough is Enough," trigger,) and a new alliance of the remaining Commonwealth and the US should be formed.

On that note, I think it would be interesting to see, in the US Focus tree, or triggers, where there is a rivalry between the army and the Navy for control and resources in the Pacific (along the same vein but not as severe as Japan. . . Nimitz and MacArthur were in open conflict with each other for supplies, C&C, and ultimately prestige. It didn't help the situation that Admiral King and General Marshall detested Mac A.

 

[Fulmen]

Then again, neither was the Irish Free State, another dominion (until 1937). (Don't get me wrong, I think both ought to get more character eventually.)

King George VI was head of state and King of Ireland until 1949, when the Republic of Ireland act of 1948 came into effect and the country left the British Commonwealth of Nations. So you could argue that Ireland was, at least on paper, a dominion until 1949. Btw Ireland wasn't removed from the titles of the monarch of England until 1953, though this bit is trivial.

With this logic you could of course argue that Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. are still dominions, which one may or may not agree with, depending on one's interpretation of the term "dominion". Fun fact: Canada's official name is still the Dominion of Canada. The name has largely fallen out of use since the 1980s, but it has never been legally rescinded.

Anyhow real life is of course different to in-game. Modelling Ireland's status while stopping them from being called into the war would require new mechanics. Australia and New Zealand didn't adopt the Statute of Westminster until 1942 and 1947 respectively, so they shouldn't even be on the same autonomy level as Canada and South Africa. And so on.

I'd say given their limited development time, the compromises they made regarding the aforementioned topics are acceptable.

What however is not acceptable is the fact that many Commonwealth countries have the wrong PM. It doesn't even require a lot of work to get them right.

Another TfV-related gripe I have is the autonomy levels are way too easy to level up, but that's related to the whole realism vs. sandbox debate so it doesn't really belong in this thread.

EDIT:

Oh and there's also a bunch of UK puppets missing that were in previous HoIs but are mysteriously free in HoI4.

 

[Derek E-L]

Fun fact: Canada's official name is still the Dominion of Canada. The name has largely fallen out of use since the 1980s, but it has never been legally rescinded.

We stoped being a dominion in every sense of the word with the patriation of our constitution in 1982, And the Canada Act. Which removed dominion from our name from that point on.
It remains in older legislation but it is not our current name. Go check with the UN.

In game, canada should have a core on NFld and UK should have a decision to release it or have a nfld referendum when at peace and infrastructure is at x level (thanks US)
The US should also get Greenland when Denmark falls.

 

[Fulmen]

We stoped being a dominion in every sense of the word with the patriation of our constitution in 1982, And the Canada Act. Which removed dominion from our name from that point on.
It remains in older legislation but it is not our current name. Go check with the UN.

Naming procedures of international organisations are not Canadian law.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Canada#Use_of_Canada_and_Dominion_of_Canada

"While no legal document ever says that the name of the country is anything other than Canada,[57] Dominion and Dominion of Canada remain official titles of the country.[58][59][60]"

In game, canada should have a core on NFld

They used to. The result was that in just about every MP game the UK would give it to the Canadian player in 1936. I'm glad they took that out.

I would however agree with Canada getting cores on it through focus or decision if the timeline was extended to at least 1949.

The US should also get Greenland when Denmark falls.

Should actually go to the UK first, then the US. Used to be in the older HoIs, but not in HoI4. One of but many, many cases where previous HoIs were superior content-wise. Expect to pay $15-25 for a DLC to get this into HoI4. Or just play a mod.