Newbie asking for help (Portugal)

[Acheron]

Greetings, I just started playing Europa Universalis IV, I played III and II some time ago, though I am not sure how well understood all mechanics (particularly trade). I would very much appreciate some help in getting into EU4.

I play Portugal, since it supposedly is a beginner friendly country. I read that you should strive to build a colonial empire, but I have the feeling that this is gonna cost money and at the start, I only have a meager surplus and only due to reducing army and fleet maintenance, so I assume it would be better to improve the cash-flow first. Here is what I do:

- I switch National Focus from Diplomatic to Administrative Power. I will need to research two levels of administrative tech anyway before I can even start with the exploration idea, plus administrative tech seems to be good for the budget.

- I hire the good (level 2) administrative adviser, while expensive, I believe I need the extra administrative power points. However, after my last game, I believe I should fire him after getting administrative tech 4 and save the money for buildings.

- Speaking of, at the start, it is soon a decision between churches and market places. Churches increase my income from tax, market places from trade. According to the economic screen, I get more money from tax than trade. Tax has a higher percentage next to it, but even taking that into account, tax still beats trade, so I itseems to me I should build churches first and then market places and in both cases I presume I should build in the provinces with the respective highest value.

- After building churches in the high tax provinces, I believe it would be better to build market places in the high trade provinces, but I have no clue how to calculate the benefit from building what where. BTW, I also intend to order buildings only if it leaves me with 30 ducats cash in case of events that require money to make good things happen or prevent something unfortunate.

- Other things I do, I immediately break the alliance with England and instead ally with Castille. I take the missions to improve relations with Papal State and Venice and then leave missions for the foreseeable future, missionizing Ceuta is not doable for now and tangling with Morocco would require a well funded army. Also, I leave the merchants where they are, though trade is something I have never quite understood in any EU game so far.

I would appreciate it very much if you people could let me know if my assumptions and strategies are correct. As I said, I am new to the game, though not the series and I wonder if
a) the things I do are the right things to achieve what I want and
b) if the things I want to achieve are even correct, or if my basic strategies are flawed by misconceptions about how the game works.

For example, am I overestimating the importance of gold? The three power points seem very important, but compensating a lack of gold from budget by borrowing sounds like a fast way into a death spiral and gold seems still to be particularly important for the military, which is a great problem solver.

Thanks in advance!

 

[smellymummy]

Setting focus on admin seems like a good idea, as you want to rush and get exploration as soon as possible so you can get a colony on the west african coast. Cape verde is the obvious cheapest choice there since there's no natives. What you shouldn't have done as far as admin points are concerned is hire the level 2 advisor. You just can't afford those yet.

Beginning buildings with temples is a good idea, though with Portugal you just might get the same returns with marketplaces... but here's the thing though: each building is essentially 50 months of a colony. It's a given that the earlier you build the quicker you get your return on your investment, but you also need to be able to afford colonies too, which you may or may not be able too.

As to the marketplaces where you get the best returns, when you use the build button in the upper left and select marketplaces, you'll see how much extra trade power you will get. For Portugal it's an absolute no brainer that you will only want to build them in Lisbon and Porto, since those two provinces have nice hefty boosts to trade power. You might have noticed the icons in those two provinces views.

Your strategy is sound, and you are very right in believing that borrowing can get way out of control where you'll end up in a long period of trying to pay off your loans, which can really stall your game. Early on when income is tight, gold is pretty darn important. However sometimes you know there's a big payday right around the corner, and at such times it doesn't hurt to borrow

 

[Incompetent]

Cash is really critical for starting a colonial/trade game. Eventually you'll be so rich you don't even know what to spend it on, but to get there, you have to invest. It's OK to run your finances a bit tight at the start, as long as you are making investments that will pay off quickly. Don't be afraid to borrow, but always have a good reason.

Fairly early on, you can get a quick income boost by grabbing gold mines in the Americas and Africa. Also colonise South Africa early, as it has a good chance of spawning gold mines and it's on your main trade route. You may also want to spend some points developing gold mines (don't go above ~10 DIP development level). The inflation is unfortunate, but well worth it for all the extra spending power you'll have. As you build up your empire, trade will come to be the main source of money and inflation will cease to be a problem. The real Portuguese economic engine fires up when you're in charge of the Zanzibar node and have a solid presence in India or Malacca, and when the colonisation of the Americas starts paying off. (You'll want to simultaneously push East and establish yourself in the Americas, as the benefits complement each other.)

Higher-level advisors are usually out of Portugal's price bracket right at the start, but if you can get 50% discount advisors (e.g. from Estates if you have Cossacks DLC), you should pretty well always take them. You'll never get a better opportunity to buy monarch points so cheaply.

 

[Acheron]

Thank you guys, that was already very helpful. You prevented me already from a mistake, going from the Azores to the Carribean wouldn't have worked, I understand I should colonize Cap Verde and once it is cored, I can move to both East Africa and Brazil, and then South Africa and the Indian Ocean and the rest of South American and the Carribean, correct?

A question though: I start with stability at zero. Should I spend the administrative power points to go to three, or should I initially save all for for the two levels of administration technology that will allow me to start colonizing? In EU 3, keeping your stability up was pretty much always recommended, is this still the case or are administrative power points just too precious at times?

 

[artemis667]

I usually invest in stability if it's negative, as the negative effects hurt more than the benefits of positive stability, but I don't often when at 0, and almost never when at 1. Stability's nice to have - I'll usually take events that raise it and ignore choices that lower it - but I usually want to spend those points on tech, ideas, and coring.

 

[smellymummy]

Yup, once Cape Verde is colonized you'll be able to go in whichever direction you want. I personally prefer going eastward with a slow build up in the Americas starting with Brazil and then the two provinces in the Caribbean with the trade power bonuses, but it's whatever you want.

As for stability, I think usually it's best to save your admin points for coring, tech and ideas. You get plenty of stability events, and you can also buy stability with your papal influence in the curia interface.

 

[Romaoplays]

Greetings, I just started playing Europa Universalis IV, I played III and II some time ago, though I am not sure how well understood all mechanics (particularly trade). I would very much appreciate some help in getting into EU4.

I play Portugal, since it supposedly is a beginner friendly country. I read that you should strive to build a colonial empire, but I have the feeling that this is gonna cost money and at the start, I only have a meager surplus and only due to reducing army and fleet maintenance, so I assume it would be better to improve the cash-flow first. Here is what I do:

- I switch National Focus from Diplomatic to Administrative Power. I will need to research two levels of administrative tech anyway before I can even start with the exploration idea, plus administrative tech seems to be good for the budget.

- I hire the good (level 2) administrative adviser, while expensive, I believe I need the extra administrative power points. However, after my last game, I believe I should fire him after getting administrative tech 4 and save the money for buildings.

- Speaking of, at the start, it is soon a decision between churches and market places. Churches increase my income from tax, market places from trade. According to the economic screen, I get more money from tax than trade. Tax has a higher percentage next to it, but even taking that into account, tax still beats trade, so I itseems to me I should build churches first and then market places and in both cases I presume I should build in the provinces with the respective highest value.

- After building churches in the high tax provinces, I believe it would be better to build market places in the high trade provinces, but I have no clue how to calculate the benefit from building what where. BTW, I also intend to order buildings only if it leaves me with 30 ducats cash in case of events that require money to make good things happen or prevent something unfortunate.

- Other things I do, I immediately break the alliance with England and instead ally with Castille. I take the missions to improve relations with Papal State and Venice and then leave missions for the foreseeable future, missionizing Ceuta is not doable for now and tangling with Morocco would require a well funded army. Also, I leave the merchants where they are, though trade is something I have never quite understood in any EU game so far.

I would appreciate it very much if you people could let me know if my assumptions and strategies are correct. As I said, I am new to the game, though not the series and I wonder if
a) the things I do are the right things to achieve what I want and
b) if the things I want to achieve are even correct, or if my basic strategies are flawed by misconceptions about how the game works.

For example, am I overestimating the importance of gold? The three power points seem very important, but compensating a lack of gold from budget by borrowing sounds like a fast way into a death spiral and gold seems still to be particularly important for the military, which is a great problem solver.

Thanks in advance!

For the advisor: If you have the cossacks DLC, go to the states and hire one of their level 2 ministers, they cost half price and provide the same as a 'normal' advisor

Build Market places on Centers of trade ( You can see that trough the trade map mode ) and Churches from the highest to the lowest autonomy province [ the tooltip shows the ones that gives more money, but theyare almost always worth it ], if you don't have anything else to build ( Like light ships or maybe some barracks )

For trade: You have to send money from other trade nodes downstream from you to your main trade node with the merchants ( In this case, Sevilla ), and in Sevilla you protect trade to guarantee that the money you are sending there goes to you.

Alliances are completely up to you, castille is very useful, but you don't necessarely have to ditch England for that ( Even if they are rivals, improving relations should be enough because you are historical friends with both )

Hope this helps!!!

Ps- To convert Ceuta ( If you have the cossacks ) you can give it to the Clergy, push the button that gives them some more loyalty for some prestige, and , while they are loyal, send the missionary, you'll have extra conversion speed.

EDIT: Lowering fleet maintence reduces how much trade they can protect, if you want to pay less for ships, mothball all that ren't light ships.

 

[Romaoplays]

Thank you guys, that was already very helpful. You prevented me already from a mistake, going from the Azores to the Carribean wouldn't have worked, I understand I should colonize Cap Verde and once it is cored, I can move to both East Africa and Brazil, and then South Africa and the Indian Ocean and the rest of South American and the Carribean, correct?

A question though: I start with stability at zero. Should I spend the administrative power points to go to three, or should I initially save all for for the two levels of administration technology that will allow me to start colonizing? In EU 3, keeping your stability up was pretty much always recommended, is this still the case or are administrative power points just too precious at times?

Stabiliyy costs more to bump to 2 and to 3, so, keep it always at least at zero, if you need to get rid of some unrest chance or some of the other bonuses, upgrade it to one, and wait for events to get it higher or go to the interaction with the pope and spend 100 influence to bump it.

 

[Incompetent]

A question though: I start with stability at zero. Should I spend the administrative power points to go to three, or should I initially save all for for the two levels of administration technology that will allow me to start colonizing? In EU 3, keeping your stability up was pretty much always recommended, is this still the case or are administrative power points just too precious at times?

Generally as a Monarchy, you should aim for 0 or +1 stability (which is a matter of taste):

Going to +2/+3 gives mild extra benefits, but it costs extra to raise stab this high, and you end up getting more -stab events anyway so it can be cancelled out. By all means, take +stab options on events if they seem like a good deal, but it's generally not worth it to manually raise stab above +1.

Negative stability is unhealthy, as it gives greatly increased unrest (+2 per point of negative stab, versus -1 per point of positive stab), drains legitimacy and can lead to disasters. It's OK to have negative stability for short periods, but you'll want to raise stability sooner rather than later. Getting rid of overextension is an even higher priority though, as overextension raises your stability cost in addition to the other problems.

 

[Aries666]

My two cents, I would consider taking all of Morocco's provinces in the Saville trade node as doing so will mean you always have the edge over Castile in trade there.

 

[LS22]

I'd say that the OP is pretty much correct on his judgement.
In my opinion, i'd just favor building markets over churches in Lisboa and Porto, because the trade value boost you'll get is much more valuable and will help you get dominance in the Sevilha trade node.
As soon as you start colonizing, go Cabo Verde, and then open 2 routes:
1. Go Pernambuco and then go to the Caribbean Islands;
2. Go asap to South África, colonizing provinces with estuaries or centers of trade.

Don't forget to select the native policy that prevents native revolts. Portuguese army and manpower suffer immensily with those revolts in the early game.

Good luck!

 

[Acheron]

First attempt failed, I gave up after Morocco DOW'ed me and Castille reneged on our alliance. The fleet main fleet that brought back the army from newly colonized Arguin was intercepted and badly mauled, I quit at that point. Was I just unlucky that Castille left me hung dry? Do I really have to be able to tangle with Morocco within the first few decades? Morocco sure looks like it would require a significant commitment of cash to be defeated, something I am lacking badly at the start.

Also, I did not take any advisors, while this sure filled by treasury, I noticed the lack of power points, I take it one administrative and one diplomatic advisor is a reasonable compromise at the start?

 

[Romaoplays]

First attempt failed, I gave up after Morocco DOW'ed me and Castille reneged on our alliance. The fleet main fleet that brought back the army from newly colonized Arguin was intercepted and badly mauled, I quit at that point. Was I just unlucky that Castille left me hung dry? Do I really have to be able to tangle with Morocco within the first few decades? Morocco sure looks like it would require a significant commitment of cash to be defeated, something I am lacking badly at the start.

Also, I did not take any advisors, while this sure filled by treasury, I noticed the lack of power points, I take it one administrative and one diplomatic advisor is a reasonable compromise at the start?

As long as you're not going in debt, all level 1 advisors are well worth it

 

[Jetstreamed]

I'd leave dip focus if i were you. Sure admin opens an idea but you still won't have range until you reach a certain range.

Any excess dip can be put into porto and lisboa = more trade power = more money.

As for funding, that's not really that important. Once you get a colonial empire you'll have more than enough cash to pay off any debts

 

[Supermilk]

I personally make crippling Morocco my number one goal as Portugal. Go up to force limit, move all your troops to your African province, declare war as soon as you can(literally as soon as your troops are built and transported) and if you lose restart.

Make sure to take humiliation and war reps. The humiliate will make up for your lack of advisers, and the war reps will help pay for advisors after the war. You can't colonize at 1444 anyway and this will set you up for great success. You'll still have 50% WS left, so take the other African province in the Sevilla node, and then grab the west coast, Spain gets missions for the east.

The only issue is you may lose the first war and need to reroll. I'm able to win the first war 80% of the time, so you'll be fine as long as you don't get a bad run of luck with Moroccan alliances.

 

[Acheron]

I'd leave dip focus if i were you. Sure admin opens an idea but you still won't have range until you reach a certain range.

Any excess dip can be put into porto and lisboa = more trade power = more money.

What do you mean by that, how can I funnel diplomatic power points into provinces for trade power?

Also, will Morocco definitely be a problem at the start or did I just have bad luck with them making war on me and treacherous Castillians ditching me? I would like to handle Morocco after I got my budget in shape and can affford a war or two.

 

[Jetstreamed]

What do you mean by that, how can I funnel diplomatic power points into provinces for trade power?

Also, will Morocco definitely be a problem at the start or did I just have bad luck with them making war on me and treacherous Castillians ditching me? I would like to handle Morocco after I got my budget in shape and can affford a war or two.

Pretty much bad luck. You should try to get castilr to help take them out and take tangier.

As for trade power, you simply put development into production (needs dip points) which will increase your trade power in the node along with adding money into the node. Best to do this on provs with estuaries and coastal centers of trade such as lisboa and porto.

 

[Pile_O_Gunz]

I don't think Portugal is the best newbie start as they got nowhere to expand. Sure you can take Morocco but its the wrong culture and full of muslims that won't convert so they rebel every 10 minutes without sky-high autonomy, I'm not sure it's worth taking anymore than the 2 provinces in the trade node.

Castiles a nice Allie but he's taking half your trade and your in no position to do anything about it.

Sure you can colonise but then the colonial nations get disloyal because your so small.
Maybe I just did it all wrong but England seems easier to me.

 

[Supermilk]

England has some really terrible events early on.

Portugal doesn't need to expand militarily to be a force, they just need to colonise in other places than the Americas

 

[Dnote]

Portugal doesn't need to take land local to them. Colonize the Ivory Coast and take those gold mines off of Mali and you'll be fine for whatever you want after that.