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heh.. well the spanish sub was mad..
I sunk his whole fleet off the scottish coast.. 480 warships sunk so fast that i couldnt even take a look at them... one dieroll and they were gone..
his army suffered pretty much the same fate in scotland, while clive went on a rampage through mexico..
I WAS planning to take zacatecas for peace(after i had occupied mainland spain).. but i didnt expect him to offer it and 2 other gold provinces with it...
oh well.. it was fun
I sunk his whole fleet off the scottish coast.. 480 warships sunk so fast that i couldnt even take a look at them... one dieroll and they were gone..
his army suffered pretty much the same fate in scotland, while clive went on a rampage through mexico..
I WAS planning to take zacatecas for peace(after i had occupied mainland spain).. but i didnt expect him to offer it and 2 other gold provinces with it...
oh well.. it was fun
String said:heh.. well the spanish sub was mad..
I sunk his whole fleet off the scottish coast.. 480 warships sunk so fast that i couldnt even take a look at them... one dieroll and they were gone..
his army suffered pretty much the same fate in scotland, while clive went on a rampage through mexico..
I WAS planning to take zacatecas for peace(after i had occupied mainland spain).. but i didnt expect him to offer it and 2 other gold provinces with it...
oh well.. it was fun
He gave up 3 proves?! WOW
HALNY (HAL) said:
Yep he sure did.. all gold..
the first thing that came to my mind after seeing the DoW message (besides the usual WTF???!?!?!?!????) was : "We are not amused!"
String said:Yep he sure did.. all gold..
the first thing that came to my mind after seeing the DoW message (besides the usual WTF???!?!?!?!????) was : "We are not amused!"
You should not agree and offer 1. It is not fair to regular player, than mad sub screwed his country.
BTW. I was sure there is a rule: "Sub not allowed to dow"
String said:
I am not sure
Rh, now it is too late, we should ask GM, when he dowed you.
After some really good sessions, I am a bit disappointed by what happened here. That incident with Spain was extremely lucky for England. I think some moves are in order to make the rest of the game interesting.
Since it will be quite difficult to find a reliable, competent and willing player for Spain in the rest of the game, I suggest we leave it AI. To compensate France (it is her vassal and ally, after all) the vassalage and alliance could be edited out, and some french cores on Spanish lands could be edited in.
Thoughts?
Since it will be quite difficult to find a reliable, competent and willing player for Spain in the rest of the game, I suggest we leave it AI. To compensate France (it is her vassal and ally, after all) the vassalage and alliance could be edited out, and some french cores on Spanish lands could be edited in.
Thoughts?
I dont blame string for accepting but i think he should give them back.
GM is clown who made his position clear. "Triangles fault for not turning up" or something like that.
GM is clown who made his position clear. "Triangles fault for not turning up" or something like that.
NitramDatsgnos said:
editing is inherently evil, and unless its utterly nessecary for game reasons i dont support it. Imho spain at its current state quite desrves a not so good player, as it is in a bad condition and should have a monarch that fits it
And really.. it wasnt that big of a boost for my income, approximatley 7% i think. And i certainly object editing such things. If it can be solved ingame then let it be solved ingame. I was pissed at spain declaring war at a most unsuitable time that threw a plan of mine right off course. Therefore i felt the need to punish spain, tho the end result surprised even me.
No, this opportunity didnt just fall into my lap, it was thrown into my face and shoved down my throat, while my mouth was sewn shut so that it couldnt get out again...
o
It was no hassle for you to fight spain he was useless. I told him not to dow and he wouldnt listen. He was an noob who didnt even know what support limit is. A naval power is now effectivly out of the game because noone will play them. He was becomming a decent power under triangle and i think it is a loss to the game.
i could diploannex
Really though id rather they are human played if it is possible. Ai would probably be better than that sub though. Seriously.....
Really though id rather they are human played if it is possible. Ai would probably be better than that sub though. Seriously.....
Indeed. I'm sick and tired of players who are too god damn irresponsible to show up on time, or failing that, notify the others. Players like that shouldn't play MP at all. Perhaps Triangle has a good reason for not showing up (ie. computer failure), but it happens so many times in MP that it's difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt. Generally speaking, Is it fair for a sub to screw up a country for a player that no-shows? If the player just plain forgot to show up - yes. Even if it wasn't the players fault, we had no other option. We needed a sub, or could let Spain go AI. This time, we were unfortunate to get a stuck with a very bad sub.cheech said:
It's also not fair that a sub can hurt the game for the rest of the players. Spain isn't exactly a major power, but this peace is going to make finding a player for that nation very difficult. Without a Spain, the situation in Europe gets hurt, though one could argue that has already happened with Spain/Austria happily being vassals. So there are a few options:
A. Let Spain go AI, and see Portugal gobble up Iberia. The colonial powers can fight for the gold mines of South America and Mexico. In this scenario, we'll at least have a powerful Iberian player, little different than the frequent scenario where Spain annexes Portugal.
B. England can give back the provinces. We're unlikely to find a willing regular for Spain if that does not happen, but it's entirely up to England.
C. The colonial nations realize there is a problem that needs to be fixed, and take it upon themselves to go in and get the job done. The combined might of Portugal, France and Sweeden would be scary. I wouldn't bet on this happening though.
It's 1773, and we've only got a few sessions left. Troubles finding a consistent Spain aside, I think we've had a fun time here. There's no reason this can't continue. Let's just just figure this one out before Monday.
There really aren't that many options. Either we:
A) find a competent Spanish player to take over the reigns for the remaining half-century - and with the loss of Mexico, will be tough;
B) or Spain is left to the AI, which is an ackward situation at best;
C) or we solve the problem by getting rid of Spain.
Although certainly self-interested, the proposal of having Portugal and France splitting Spain seems fair, both to compensate France for losing a vassal, and to keep a strong Iberian power in the game. It has pernicious effects certainly, but nothing so detrimental to the game as leaving Spain AI.
Should we decide to get rid of Spain, that is something which ought to be done via edit, since there just isn't the time anymore to Balkanise Spain if we are to have an interesting and intense endgame. If that solution is concluded, I'm willing to do the edit required, priorly approved by France as Spain's liege and the rest of the crew for game balance, as well as test it out to be ready for next monday.
I think the issue is worth considering certainly, because the worst thing is definitely an AI Spain(and an impotent Spain is only slightly better), and unless we have a player lined up soon, we need to settle this.
Thoughts?
A) find a competent Spanish player to take over the reigns for the remaining half-century - and with the loss of Mexico, will be tough;
B) or Spain is left to the AI, which is an ackward situation at best;
C) or we solve the problem by getting rid of Spain.
Although certainly self-interested, the proposal of having Portugal and France splitting Spain seems fair, both to compensate France for losing a vassal, and to keep a strong Iberian power in the game. It has pernicious effects certainly, but nothing so detrimental to the game as leaving Spain AI.
Should we decide to get rid of Spain, that is something which ought to be done via edit, since there just isn't the time anymore to Balkanise Spain if we are to have an interesting and intense endgame. If that solution is concluded, I'm willing to do the edit required, priorly approved by France as Spain's liege and the rest of the crew for game balance, as well as test it out to be ready for next monday.
I think the issue is worth considering certainly, because the worst thing is definitely an AI Spain(and an impotent Spain is only slightly better), and unless we have a player lined up soon, we need to settle this.
Thoughts?
I'm beginning to like that idea. As long as we have a world power in Iberia, there shouldn't be a problem for the balance of power. Portugal has nearly as high an income as England, and with the manpower of Iberia that nation will be interesting to watch. Actually, that situation would probably allow for a much more entertaining end. A weak Spain with a miserable income and no fleet is not going to be able to contribute much to any area of warfare.
However, it's not just a matter of handing Iberian provinces to Portugal and France. What about the gold mines in South America? Should we create a slew of independent nations there? If so, should they be off limits? This could create more problems than it will solve.
I'd like to hear other thoughts about this. I absolutely hate the idea of doing major edits like this, but it will most certainly create a much more fun last few sessions. Europe is stagnant because the French have complete domination over their biggest potential enemies, and England is nearly untouchable. The creation of an Iberian power (what Spain should have been) will change both situations.
However, it's not just a matter of handing Iberian provinces to Portugal and France. What about the gold mines in South America? Should we create a slew of independent nations there? If so, should they be off limits? This could create more problems than it will solve.
I'd like to hear other thoughts about this. I absolutely hate the idea of doing major edits like this, but it will most certainly create a much more fun last few sessions. Europe is stagnant because the French have complete domination over their biggest potential enemies, and England is nearly untouchable. The creation of an Iberian power (what Spain should have been) will change both situations.
anevilclown said:
Iberia to Portugal and South America to Poland. Or Portugal will give Africa to Poland, than he will get South America. I am talking seriously. I deserve to have some colonies since I am already in Africa.
I thought about the situation last night and there are two options imho
#1. I am prepared to give back the provinces to spain if triangle shows up next session, under one condition. I get to monopolize zacatecas
#2. Every human player country gets a temp CB on spain until the end of the game, and can pick them apart as they see fit. I guess some areas should be defined what people want, eg. prussia may want western coast of north america since he already has a colony there while sweden might want to add to his southamerican colonies. If this option is taken then iberia should be divided amongst portugal and france, and maybe austria.
Editing spain away to portugal is right out imho as it would create a monster with much higher income than even i have...
#1. I am prepared to give back the provinces to spain if triangle shows up next session, under one condition. I get to monopolize zacatecas
#2. Every human player country gets a temp CB on spain until the end of the game, and can pick them apart as they see fit. I guess some areas should be defined what people want, eg. prussia may want western coast of north america since he already has a colony there while sweden might want to add to his southamerican colonies. If this option is taken then iberia should be divided amongst portugal and france, and maybe austria.
Editing spain away to portugal is right out imho as it would create a monster with much higher income than even i have...
