• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(57297)

Sergeant
May 23, 2006
50
0
NEW WEAPON SYSTEM changes combat and politics

In this article I want to focus on two aspects.

1. I would like to introduce a concept to divide manpower of units from its equipment

2. How heavy equipment should affect the politics of great, small and minor powers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. DIVIDE MANPOWER FROM EQUIPMENT

1.1 CHANGES IN PRODUCTION

To make clear what I’m going to do here I use the example of setting up a Mot.Ínfantry with artillery.

To set up a unit you would first have to set up the manpower. You chose the type of unit (Infantry, mountaineers, marines, airborne, tank division or an aviation unit). This includes training of the troops setting up the logistics, placing officers in charge and some little equipment (like uniforms, shovels, helmets, pistols and so on)

Now your Soldiers need Weapons, So you have to produce some infantry weapons. Lets say we have 1939 and you have researched 39 Inf. Weapons, so you are producing these kind of weapons. After you have produced enough weapons you can place the unit.

The Trucks and artillery you produce in the same way and attach it to the unit.

Important is that these attachment to the units are not like a brigade in the moment. They can also be reduced in percentages by combat.


1.2 NICE BUT WHAT FOR

Now a lot of you people will say. “Nice idea makes it more realistic but what is the impact on the game and isn’t it way to complex. Just think of the AI”

To get an idea what will change on the battlefield I wants to question the use of Stukas. Now in the game we use Stukas against ground units and the vulnerable is Infantry, because Stukas have a high attack rate against soft targets. But this wasn’t actually the use of Stukas. Stukas were equipped with single bombs to make precise attack and strong guns to crack armor. Stukas were used to attack bunkers, tanks, trucks, trains, artillery. They were simply not very useful against small soft targets that could easily hide in bushes or under trees.

In this example the impact on the game would be that you don’t erase the enemy with you overwhelming bomber fleet. But you destroy the heavy equipment of the enemy and reducing his firepower, making it easier for your tanks to overrun him.


1.3 CLOSER LOOK AT PRODUTION

Let’s take a closer look at production and how it could be shown in the interface.

As mentioned in 1.1 you would produce specific equipment (as level 3 light tanks, 39er Inf, weapons, tiger tanks, level 1 interceptors and so on). This equipment would not be upgradeable.

Now you need a weapon pool. This should have a separate window you could access trough the production window, in categories like motorization, tanks. This could be divided into sub windows, were you could see you stock.
When you select an equipment there should occur a list of all units which are equipped with this specific equipment. In this menu you should also be able to detach equipment from units (of course you could always change attachments in the map view). And if the equipment is to old you could scrap or sale it.

To make the supply with new weapons more easily, the system should have more level priority system (just the normal priority button which you can click more often the get a different priority level). Then new models should be automatically delivered to the priority units. Old equipment would return to stock or low priority units.

To secure high speed of a motorized army, the amount of vehicles each unit under on comand possess should be balanced.

I think this system could decrease complexity dramatically. A full automatically auto assignment could also be an option for beginning players.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


2. EFFECT ON POLITICS

The effects on the politics will probably have a much greater effect the on the combat system.

When we look at small and minor powers in the game they are relatively independent in there military development. They may don’t have the ability to have the most modern tanks. But they can still catch up with there Infantry. Sometimes they also have new models of bombers.

Historically we must realise, that these powers were strongly dependent on military supply by major powers. Small powers in most cases didn’t have the technological and industrial capacity to produce weapons in appropriate quality and quantity.

For example Nat. China became a military junkyard for military equipment from all over the world. It also ordered 600,000 helmets from Germany (image). And helmets are not a very complex product.

In this system relationships between small and big powers would become a much greater aspect of the game. Small power would require weapons from the major powers and the major powers would require recourses from small powers.

This leads to a very delicate addition between major and small power. It could also open its way to intervene in conflicts without involving in it openly. Like the SU done in Vietnam.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


My proposal is not just a try to make the game more realistic. I think it could ad some very interesting aspects to the game which could make a lot of fun to play with.

Hope you like it
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Smut Peddler

Major
16 Badges
Apr 24, 2007
604
2
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Impressive. I especially liked your description of what ACTUALLY happens in a Stuka attack. I think most people overlook the fact that Blitzkrieg is more about shock and manuever than anything else, not about fighting so much as effecting breakthroughs and outflanking.
Adding motorization to any unit would certainly have some benefits; a national motor pool would have some benefits, but perhaps building regional motor pools would be more so?
I wonder how you would handle the "redeployment" time period (currently represented in the game by 1 week, regardless of distance). Of course, there has to be a better way to do it, but I'm not sure i have any idea for it besides the obvious, i.e., distance between 2 points/infrastructure level. I say obvious, b/c it wasn't done in the game, and there's probably a reason for that...
As to your politics...wouldn't it just be easier to tell computer nations to use IC just for supplies, from which they would support infantry/calvary units, and disable their ability to produce armor/aircraft/etc. on a country by country basis?
 

unmerged(57297)

Sergeant
May 23, 2006
50
0
Smut Peddler said:
I wonder how you would handle the "redeployment" time period (currently represented in the game by 1 week, regardless of distance). Of course, there has to be a better way to do it, but I'm not sure i have any idea for it besides the obvious, i.e., distance between 2 points/infrastructure level. I say obvious, b/c it wasn't done in the game, and there's probably a reason for that...

I think it would be easiest to give the unit a recovering time. Like 1 week to be fully new equiped. Maybe it isn't very realistic, but you always have to keep in mind, if it changes something in the gameplay. Realism is good, but only if it makes the game more interesting.

Smut Peddler said:
As to your politics...wouldn't it just be easier to tell computer nations to use IC just for supplies, from which they would support infantry/calvary units, and disable their ability to produce armor/aircraft/etc. on a country by country basis?

I'm a big fan of seperating the IC into severall categories. When HOI3 would have seperated ICs, this system would pefectly fit in. You could concentrate heavy war industrie, in the great power countries and this weaponsystem would make real sense.

I don't think a lot of players would like the fact, that small countries could not have the option of producing heavy equipment. Also a small county can become bigger and conquer some areas with heavy industry.
 

Smut Peddler

Major
16 Badges
Apr 24, 2007
604
2
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Yes, I suppose that the 1 week time period is probably a pretty good compromise between realism and interesting gameplay, but if it were to be more accurate (i.e., distance divided by infrastructure level), it would keep me from getting really annoyed when i want to transfer brigades between units in the same province.

Good point about smaller countries gaining heavy industries through conquest. Perhaps certain factories in certain nations will have aircraft/armored fabrication abilities that will enable smaller nations to build them?
 

unmerged(76495)

Resident Iranien Fanatic
May 18, 2007
2.337
4
Intresting.... Most intresting.

Correct me if im wrong, but as I read it you basicly want "naval brigade" kinda things applied to land units instead of the normal brigades. And these brigades would include more basic stuff like guns.

I think it could be a very good idea, easpacially if other ideas were implemented in it. Like a "bare" infantery units, that is the men themselves and very basic equipment only filled half a transport point and the other stuff the last half ( or more depending on the stuff ). That way, you would be able to save more men from a dunkirk style problem by ditching their heavy equipment. This could turn out a very good and realistic opportunity for espacially the UK. The equipment would then be lost, and could be captured by the germans who would then be able to supsequently use them. Possibly with a small penalty due to difference of design..

The same could happen with units caught in encirclements, you´d get their stuff. Which you could then use against their former owners. Imagine playing germany and suddenly have to face tigers.... Or give it to your less evolved allies.

It would also, like you mention, give a better way of simulating lend-lease agrements by the US. Instead like today, were the US give up a few supplies and the reciever gains IC. The US of HoI3 could send trucks, tanks and guns. Just like in real life. If this took place over seas then it could be included in the convoy system. Thus actually giving the axis a possibily to prevent weapon transfer by active convoy hunting.

In essence, a good idea. I hope it gets implemented :D
 

unmerged(63614)

Sergeant
Dec 16, 2006
75
0
wow, so let me get this right: their would be a pool of machines hmmm.....

so just like you have 4000k ( 4,000,000 ) of coal or 200k of oil you would also have 20k 1943 infantry weapons or 10 thousand tiger tanks if you had build them and researched them of course.

your units be them infantry or panzers or even air units would be say just 10 manpower but nothing more till you added the imporatant weapons of your choice??? :cool: ?

the parts from your quartermaster's stockpiles you assigned or gave to the group of 10 manpower would effect what type of sprite that division was then turned into. ( give em 40 spitfires they become an air unit? )

These non- armed units of able to fight men could be called workers then you asign 400 tanks to them they become a panzer unit or 100 tanks & 100 mechanised halftracks they become mechanised infantery.

obviously panzer crews have pistols but you assign x amount of tanks & x amounts of 1936 rifles & 500 lorries they become panzer grenadier?

Its an interesting concept but i wouldnt like to send my un armed workers into the fight cus that would be like the russians & their 'traitor' units ( used to clear minefields in some cases ) ( not very effective when fighting a battle )

perhaps there can be two base units ' trained manpower ' ( armed with pistols ) & 'non trained manpower ' ( becomes volksturm even if given tanks & guns ) ( there non trained so they have low organisation )
 

unmerged(63614)

Sergeant
Dec 16, 2006
75
0
The front line units with the best organisation can be given different ( or newer equipment ) when their organisation allows it?

the equipment is taken from a stockpile ( you could always build more? )
handed to the units & their combat stats change.

The ability to change the front line units is dependant on your TC as well as if you own the type of machines your converting a unit to.....?
Perhaps you can only supply a unit to a different kind of weapons if your TC is positive?
 

Rodrico Stak

Kaiser
44 Badges
Apr 1, 2007
2.677
4
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
This is a very good idea. I'd like to see it implemented, but giving minors the ability to gain production of heavy weapons if they, for example, build a heavy weapons factory that takes a very long time to build. This is historical (sort of) because while China didn't have the capability to produce those heavy weapons in 1936, the Chinese Communists certianly did improve on China's industry (they have tanks, the Nationalists didn't).
 

unmerged(63614)

Sergeant
Dec 16, 2006
75
0
of course you could always have 3 types of base unit.
the worker brigade ( maximum potential = home guard with light tanks )
the trained soldier ( maximum potential = Tank unit/pilot )
the super soldir! (maximum potential = SS unit/kamikasepilot/all round nutter)
:mad: of course this is eliteist & wont sell paradox any games :cool: