New types of battalions to attach

[unmerged(37708)]

At least early in the war there where much more different type of battalions of the german side to attach to an single division.
Examples Land Units:
- MG Battalions
- Radfahr squadrons (Bycicle battalions)
- light Tank Battalions (refering to the manual they should be in but they aren't)
- Panzerfaust squadron's (?Man powered AT's)
- Mortar Battalions (when 120mm heavy's became avail) instead of common art.
- Sturmpanzer Battalions, especially designed for use against heavy defences or street fighting (Brummbär, Sturmtiger)

Examples Navy Forces:
- Supply submarine to extend Range and efficency
- Mine layers
- mine sweepers
- supply ships and raiders to place e.g. in the south atlantic
- special recon plane squad's which can not attack ships in general but can operate in an sea area...hard to be intercepted by carrier based planes (like FW 200 Condor) but with no armament to simulate the extended range.

There also could be some more units which probably wouldn't change the outcome in general but which would be probably much fun

 

[Orthank]

There is no place for batalion management in Hoi2 i'm afraid, the smallest unit is a size of a brigade.

 

[unmerged(38672)]

Examples Navy Forces:
- Supply submarine to extend Range and efficency
- Mine layers
- mine sweepers
- supply ships and raiders to place e.g. in the south atlantic
- special recon plane squad's which can not attack ships in general but can operate in an sea area...hard to be intercepted by carrier based planes (like FW 200 Condor) but with no armament to simulate the extended range.

There also could be some more units which probably wouldn't change the outcome in general but which would be probably much fun

I agree with you on naval brigades. I would like to see mine-sweepers, torpedo-boats and amphibious vessels as naval brigades!

 

[unmerged(37708)]

Orthank,
call it as you want, battalions, brigades etc.
the main reason to write that is to improve the possibilitys for the different branches.

 

[unmerged(15260)]

BTN/BRG well that depends on the unit. A heavy Pz BTN like abteillung 501 was probably more than equal in fighting power to a whole BRG of bycycle troops (not in jungle etc.). Uncle Hitler once said that he considered a TIGER BTN to be worth a whole Pz DIV, maybe a little overstatement but you get the general idea. ART was generally organized in brigades under a corps. They were not "given" to a unit but very temporarily supported operations.
Actually it does not make sense to add new brigades/BTN as long as the brigades system is so screwed up and unbalanced as it is right now.See:
Also except for tanks/TD it makes no sense to add units as small as BTN as their combat power is to small. One reg INF DIV has 9 INF BTNs+arty/mortars etc. so a Bycycle/MG BTN should add about ½-1 SA...Makes no sense.
Light tank brigade can be produced.
120mm mortars and Panzerfaust were organic in the DIVs after they got introduced so no reason to make them seperate units.
Sturmpanzers ok could be of use, they aid urban attack. But no player will use them with the current system, where u can only add one brigade to each DIV

 

[unmerged(3352)]

Odds of new brigades being added = small.

 

[Paul_M]

One Brigade that would be good would be a Tank Brigade (Bn) not with light but with medium tanks. That would allow for some of the historic motorised divisions. It should be available in 40 and be limited to Inf, Motorised, Mountain, Mechanised and Marine divisions.

 

[markpalm1]

Odds of new brigades being added = small.

Can you upgrade the stats of the stugs? 30,000 tank kills by 1945. Soviet tanks were forbidden to get into duels with them.

 

[Makeyourownmind]

Attune for more diversity in Brigades

I dont wan't to have minelayers ore minesweepers, in general, they where only used in small waterstreets near the coast, maybe you can make Shipmovement in small coastal areas slower, like near Dover/Calais or beetween Sweden and Denmark or Germany, but thats the limit.
Torpedoboats and schnellboote (military speedboats) are generally implemented in the destroyers, I think, but their visibility is to high. (Or, it is generally to high.) Schnellboote are useless as brigades because they where used independent in WW II as recon, for commerce war and as coastal fighters. (They have had huge success, at the end of the war more than u-boats.)
Bazooka, mortar and machineguns are generally implemented in the normal infantry, but maybe you could add extra ones as additional brigades or so... (a two-brigades system: one heavy [the ones used now] and one light... or, like i sugessted earlier, a modifikation to an infantry at creation/or deployment, like: Bazooka (AT), hvy mortars (SA/Tough), hvy machineguns (SA/DEF/Urban), winter, dschungel and so on. Bycicles where used to speed Infantry up on the march (with no enemy contact), but I think it was to expensive.

But Stug (Sturmgeschütze) are nice for brigades; they are, in general, one of the evolutions of the first WW Panzerstrategies (like the French used their tanks 1940) They give less softness, more AT, a little bit SA and some toughness (no or only some defense).

Maybe every airport can have a recon range related to the best researched range in airplanes? (Of course, not a perfect recon, but a usefull one.)
Maybe this uses up fuel and supplies, and you can activate it for every airport separate.

 

[Spruce]

At least early in the war there where much more different type of battalions of the german side to attach to an single division.
Examples Land Units:
- MG Battalions
- Radfahr squadrons (Bycicle battalions)
- light Tank Battalions (refering to the manual they should be in but they aren't)
- Panzerfaust squadron's (?Man powered AT's)
- Mortar Battalions (when 120mm heavy's became avail) instead of common art.
- Sturmpanzer Battalions, especially designed for use against heavy defences or street fighting (Brummbär, Sturmtiger)

Examples Navy Forces:
- Supply submarine to extend Range and efficency
- Mine layers
- mine sweepers
- supply ships and raiders to place e.g. in the south atlantic
- special recon plane squad's which can not attack ships in general but can operate in an sea area...hard to be intercepted by carrier based planes (like FW 200 Condor) but with no armament to simulate the extended range.

There also could be some more units which probably wouldn't change the outcome in general but which would be probably much fun

MG's, panzerfaust and stuff are just platoons! We can't hardly go into this kind of detiail

 

[vimhawk]

Brigades and Orbats

Remember that divisions are large organisations with integrated support and service elements. Although they are described as 'infantry', 'tank' or whatever, they in fact already consist of many different elements (each with their own sub-orbats). Perhaps some of the desire to produce different brigades/battalions is because its hard to perceive what a division actually represents on the ground. Incidentally, I believe IRL that Allied infantry divisions had more tanks in their orbat than German Pz divisions.

I have reservations about the brigade system anyway. I would prefer less rather than more (and in the future, them to be corps/army assets, not attached to divisions).... but that's another thread.

 

[Wulf145]

At least early in the war there where much more different type of battalions of the german side to attach to an single division.
Examples Land Units:
- MG Battalions
- Radfahr squadrons (Bycicle battalions)
- light Tank Battalions (refering to the manual they should be in but they aren't)
- Panzerfaust squadron's (?Man powered AT's)
- Mortar Battalions (when 120mm heavy's became avail) instead of common art.
- Sturmpanzer Battalions, especially designed for use against heavy defences or street fighting (Brummbär, Sturmtiger)

Examples Navy Forces:
- Supply submarine to extend Range and efficency
- Mine layers
- mine sweepers
- supply ships and raiders to place e.g. in the south atlantic
- special recon plane squad's which can not attack ships in general but can operate in an sea area...hard to be intercepted by carrier based planes (like FW 200 Condor) but with no armament to simulate the extended range.

There also could be some more units which probably wouldn't change the outcome in general but which would be probably much fun

The Light armor brigades work in all my games - you just have to research them (advanced light Tank).

Panzerfausts were distributed to all infantry and Volksturm (German Version of the British Home Guard) - as far as I know there were never any specific Panzerfaust units.

As for Sturmpanzer - those were never deployed as units, I remeber reading that there were less than 100 ever produced.

 

[Makeyourownmind]

produktion numbers of german StuG and Sturmpanzer

On German side:
StuG = Sturmgeschütz, also called Sturmpanzer
(Assault Gun?, a tank without a turret, the gun is in fixed position; that vehicle is not for antitank duty in the first place [but also used for], but to help the infantry)

Sdkfz = Sonderkraftfahrzeug
(Special Vehicle, every german military vehicle got one number)



StuG III / "Sdkfz 142" (A-F): about 1,500 produced
................................(G) : about 7,700

StuG IV / "Sdkfz 163": about 1,100

Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär" (Sturmpanzer 43) / "Sdkfz 166": 306 vehicles

Sturmpanzer VI "Sturmtiger" / no Sdkfz-number: 18 vehicles
(damaged Panzers "Tiger" who where converted)



As for the use: They where assigned to Artillery units, who where assigned the usuall way. Some (only a few) found their way to Antitank Battaillons [of the Infantry] or to Tank Divisions.

 

[Makeyourownmind]

double message, ignore this one (my browser... or this php... don't know)

 

[Makeyourownmind]

German Tank Division compositions over the years

A german Panzerdivision 1935:
One Panzerbrigade, one motorised Infantrybrigade and some attached units.
(561 Panzers I and II, one regiment Infantry on motortrucks and motorbikes, 24 howitzers, some AT, some Pioneers, Recon [36 Combat Cars?])
---> 6 Divisions


A german Motorised Cavalry Division [or light Panzerdivision] (only up to the Poland campaign, after that they where reorganised and reinforced to Panzerdivisions):
(90 light tanks, one larger motorised Infantrybrigade and same attached units as usual).
---> 4 Divisions


A german Panzerdivision 1939:
One Panzerbrigade, one larger motorised Infantrybrigade (or two smaler) and some attached units.
(302 to 306 Panzers I to IV [large contingents of I and II], more motorised Infantry, rest the same?)
---> the 6 Panzerdivisions mentioned before


A german Panzerdivision late 1940 (after France):
One Panzerbrigade, one big motorised Infantrybrigade and some attached units.
(128 Panzer III and 64 Panzer IV or, more rare, 192 Panzer III and 96 Panzer IV, even more Infantry, 36 howitzers and attached units)
---> all 10 Divisions mentioned before and 14 new, for a total of 24


A german Panzerdivision 1942:
One Panzerbrigade, two Panzergrenadierregimenter (armored-infantry regiments) and some attached units.
(164 Panzer III and Panzer IV, a lot of Infantry, some Panzer VI "Tiger", rest the same as usual?)
---> up to 44 Divisions?


A german Panzerdivision 1943:
One Panzerbrigade, two Panzergrenadierregimenter (armored-infantry regiments) and some attached units.
(88 Panzer III and Panzer IV, 88 Panzer V "Panther", a lot of Infantry, some Panzer VI "Tiger", rest the same as usual?)
---> up to 44 Divisions? + 7 SS-Panzerdivisionen (more Infantry, rest the same)


A german Panzerdivision 1944:
One Panzerregiment and two Panzergrenadierregimenter (armored-infantry regiments) and some attached units.
(68 Panzer III and Panzer IV, 68 Panzer V "Panther", 20 Sturmgeschütze, a lot of Infantry, some Panzer VI "Tiger", 42 howitzers, some AA, rest the same as usual)
---> 44 Divisions + 7 SS-Panzerdivisions (more Infantry, rest the same)


A german Panzerdivision late 1945:
One Panzerregiment and two Panzergrenadierregimenter (armored-infantry regiments) and some attached units.
(20 Panzer III and Panzer IV, 20 Panzer V "Panther", 20 Sturmgeschütze, 45 Combat Cars, a lot of Infantry, some Panzer VI "Tiger", 42 howitzers, some AA, rest the same as usual)
---> 44 Divisions + 7 SS-Panzerdivisions (more Infantry, rest the same)


(on February 1st 1945 the germans got 6501 Sturmgeschütze, 6191 Panzer and I don't know how much Jagdpanzer [selfpropelled, armored AT])

---------------------------------------------------

The Allied Tankdivisions have been reduced constantly during the war, too, but I don't know to what extent. (Of course, not to the size of the late 1945 divisions...)

 

[Quivis]

MG's, panzerfaust and stuff are just platoons! We can't hardly go into this kind of detiail

I agree but "naval brigades" are a good idea IMHO

 

[unmerged(39334)]

On German side:
StuG = Sturmgeschütz, also called Sturmpanzer
(Assault Gun?, a tank without a turret, the gun is in fixed position; that vehicle is not for antitank duty in the first place [but also used for], but to help the infantry)

Sdkfz = Sonderkraftfahrzeug
(Special Vehicle, every german military vehicle got one number)



StuG III / "Sdkfz 142" (A-F): about 1,200 produced
(G) : maybe about 8,000

Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär" (Sturmpanzer 43) / "Sdkfz 166": 306 vehicles

Sturmpanzer VI "Sturmtiger" / no Sdkfz-number: 18 vehicles
(damaged Panzers "Tiger" who where converted)



As for the use: They where assigned to Artillery units, who where assigned the usuall way. Some (only a few) found their way to Antitank Battaillons [of the Infantry] or to Tank Divisions.

Sounds like these are already covered as SP Art & TD's.

 

[Makeyourownmind]

Attune for more diversity in general

Yeah, but it would be fun to actually be able to CHANGE something by myself. I am not able to direct the path of my military. The doctrines are a nice way.
BUT
1. I am not able to direct my military by myself - my path is already chosen.
2. Some "hardcoded" boni would be nice, like some more SA/HA or such, if I utilize StuG in my Artillery.

SOME differences to other countrys. And I want to be able to equip my Infantry with winter equipment (and if japanese, with jungle equipment). Why it is possible to equip the mounteneers with atrition-free equipment, but my Infantry not?
Additionally, units should use more supplies in winter. And have you ever heard what happens with artillery or tanks if you use a frozen gun? They have to be warmed; otherwise they would be destroyed.

Alternatively, you could install a button like the "Supplie for offensive", but instead it is a "supplie for winter"; initially, it costs a lot, and after that click the unit uses supplies at, lets say, double rate for six month, but has no winter atrition.