New to CK2. I have a question regarding demesne size and balance.

[tahlaskerssen]

So i´m new to ck2 but really experienced EU4 player. So far i find this game far more interesting and involving and realistic and not justa genocide blobbing simulator.

My question is, i´ve started as count in france and been over my demesne size pretty much all the game by acquiring lots of new land by at least (over 25% my demesne size at least). Yes my vassals got angry but i still find it worth it for the personal levies and income. Now i own 3 duchies as well as many counties (not all of them). I´m still way over my desmenze size and pretty much 75% of my vassals have negative opinion of me but i don´t care because i am able to raise a larger army than my King just because my personal levies are huge.

Is this an unbalanced feature or when i become king and acquire more vassals eventually being over demesne size become problematic in some way?

Since my council is the one that declares war, very few vassals can join factions and all their forces combined are a joke against mine.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

So i´m new to ck2 but really experienced EU4 player. So far i find this game far more interesting and involving and realistic and not justa genocide blobbing simulator.

My question is, i´ve started as count in france and been over my demesne size pretty much all the game by acquiring lots of new land by at least (over 25% my demesne size at least). Yes my vassals got angry but i still find it worth it for the personal levies and income. Now i own 3 duchies as well as many counties (not all of them). I´m still way over my desmenze size and pretty much 75% of my vassals have negative opinion of me but i don´t care because i am able to raise a larger army than my King just because my personal levies are huge.

Is this an unbalanced feature or when i become king and acquire more vassals eventually being over demesne size become problematic in some way?

Since my council is the one that declares war, very few vassals can join factions and all their forces combined are a joke against mine.

Centralised play is, of course, a strategy one can take. However there are few things to remember when over demense limit - the vassals who hate you might not join factions but will surely pot against you more willingly, and the penalty to personal levy increases with each holding over demense. More on this on the wiki:

http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Demesne

 

[Secret Master]

I wouldn't go much beyond 25% past the limit. The penalty gets much harsher as you keep adding holdings. I'm not talking about vassals, either. You lose income and levies when you go over the limit. Rich holdings can add a bit to your levy and income if you go somewhat over, but past one or two extra holdings, it hurts you more than it helps.

This assumes you just ignore what your vassals think of all this.

 

[PK_AZ]

Is this an unbalanced feature or when i become king and acquire more vassals eventually being over demesne size become problematic in some way?

Generally speaking it's easy to be centralized when you are duke. Having, for example, five demense size limit, six counties and six one-county vassals, your army is comparable with those of all your vassals combined(equivalent of 1.25+5*0.8 = 5.25 standarized castles against 6, but yours are probably more developed), and your private levies are backbone of your army, with vassals sending about equivalent of 0.6 standarized castle. You also still get 6*0.8 = 4.8 standarized castle equivalent of cash modified by stewardship bonus, not counting your immediate mayors taxes.

EDIT.
But when you are big enough, you WILL love the fact you don't have to pay your vassal levies salary.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Yes, also making vassals fight and die for you is kinda fun when your troops wait at home unscathed

 

[PK_AZ]

Yes, also making vassals fight and die for you is kinda fun when your troops wait at home unscathed

It's not >>fun<<. Its sensible.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

I never go past my limit. Try to have high centralization and a few Viceroys as vassals.

 

[RelVleDy]

Something else that hasn't been touched upon here is when you give territory to vassals, they will form their own council. You won't see them on the map, but they're there. This is crucial as you expand, because it doesn't matter how talented your council is, it doesn't change the fact you can only keep one spymaster, one priest, etc. etc. You need vassals to work-around this limit, and this is especially important for priests and diplomats, because you'll pop religion conversions and fabricated claims faster (although for diplomats, you'll find they just fabricate your own countries claims, preferring internal wars, but I digress, lol).

Furthermore, some vassals will spend their gold to construct buildings, so it's not like they greedily hoard it (depending on their traits).

For the longest time I never understood this, so I'd always have 2+ demesne over the limit. Then someone told me it's alright to have 1+ demesne. Now, I disagree with even that and try my hardest to keep my demesne at the limit, but at the end of the day, if you can't find a reliable person to give your demesne too, then sometimes you just have to suck it up and hold onto the demesne, especially if you think your character is about to die. Try to become more centralized, remove "empowered council," and raise your leader's stewardship via Way of Life focus. Marrying a husband/wife with great stewardship will help -- they'll impart half their stats onto yours, which might be enough to boost your limit.

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Something else that hasn't been touched upon here is when you give territory to vassals, they will form their own council. You won't see them on the map, but they're there. This is crucial as you expand, because it doesn't matter how talented your council is, it doesn't change the fact you can only keep one spymaster, one priest, etc. etc. You need vassals to work-around this limit, and this is especially important for priests and diplomats, because you'll pop religion conversions and fabricated claims faster (although for diplomats, you'll find they just fabricate your own countries claims, preferring internal wars, but I digress, lol).

Furthermore, some vassals will spend their gold to construct buildings, so it's not like they greedily hoard it (depending on their traits).

For the longest time I never understood this, so I'd always have 2+ demesne over the limit. Then someone told me it's alright to have 1+ demesne. Now, I disagree with even that and try my hardest to keep my demesne at the limit, but at the end of the day, if you can't find a reliable person to give your demesne too, then sometimes you just have to suck it up and hold onto the demesne, especially if you think your character is about to die. Try to become more centralized, remove "empowered council," and raise your leader's stewardship via Way of Life focus. Marrying a husband/wife with great stewardship will help -- they'll impart half their stats onto yours, which might be enough to boost your limit.

I didnt understand the first part. Can you re explain me please?

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Well, the vassal will develop the land on their own. They will convert the populace, tax (and use the money from taxation to improve holdings) etc.

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Oh, i understood now. Thanks