New RNW + No Boats = Problem?

[Cragspyder]

So, with the new Random New World Generator coming with Cossacks, i have to ask if this has been addressed:

What happens if a native nation (of any government/religion) is placed on a landmass that is too small?

With the historical map it is impossible to colonize or conquer all land in the Americas before Europeans show up, so you will always be able to reform.

However, with the new RNW generator you have already shown it is possible to have disconnected or smaller landmasses. If these are possible, some precaution or change should be made so that the primitive nations will always be able to reform without having to be conquered first, in the case that all provinces on a landmass are taken before Europeans can reach.

Options i can think of include:

Reformation (and westernization) via diplomacy with a western power

Colonization (via canoe a la Polynesia) across sea zones but no boats until westernization

Just bring the boats back i guess (this ones for you TMIT)

Or maybe you have already thought of this and the generator will avoid these scenarios.

 

[MrParadux]

From what I gather, one of the problems of the current RNW is that it generates way less provinces than they actually are. With Art of War (I think) a lot of new provicnes wer added, but not extended to the random new world generator. If this will be changed, I don't think it would be as much of a problem.

However you do raise a very good point that should be considered

 

[jusuu]

I may be wrong but it seems to place things based on the area and what's already there. That's why a bunch of inti states were put bordering each other but the tribes were put apart so they could migrate.

So I think it could know not to place them if there's not others for them to conquer and reform

 

[Wizzington]

I may be wrong but it seems to place things based on the area and what's already there. That's why a bunch of inti states were put bordering each other but the tribes were put apart so they could migrate.

So I think it could know not to place them if there's not others for them to conquer and reform

Ayep.

 

[MrParadux]

Nice

 

[Cragspyder]

Well if all the Intl or Nahuatl/Mayan states are on a small landmass you could still have this problem, but thank you for the response, i guess its under control.

 

[hwoosh]

Ayep.

Just let primitives build transports already, Wiz!

The Incas even have that flavor event where you literally send your heir on a naval expedition across the western ocean, yet no one in the Americas can build actual in-game boats?

Give them zero cannons. Restrict them to natives who have reached dip tech 3. Disallow them from being used to explore. Give natives zero naval range, thus instant ticking attrition once they leave port. Whatever you want. Just for god's sakes, give natives the basic ability to move units short distances over water.

 

[FleetingRain]

Just let primitives build transports already, Wiz!

The Incas even have that flavor event where you literally send your heir on a naval expedition across the western ocean, yet no one in the Americas can build actual in-game boats?

Give them zero cannons. Restrict them to natives who have reached dip tech 3. Disallow them from being used to explore. Give natives zero naval range, thus instant ticking attrition once they leave port. Whatever you want. Just for god's sakes, give natives the basic ability to move units short distances over water.

SPECIALLY the mesoamericans. Their gameplay is totally broken right now with the massive map-staring.

 

[solidprice]

It would be funny if you could reform to become high american tech as a new world primitive.
.....provided there are high Americans in said game.

..but yeah natives should have a pretty bad boat to get to other close by islands. liking the dip 3 requirement so you have to make a choice: ports and colonizing or free MPs/tech?
It was funny to see in shen's sungod run to be blockaded .....with 0 ports lol

 

[hwoosh]

It would be funny if you could reform to become high american tech as a new world primitive.
.....provided there are high Americans in said game.

..but yeah natives should have a pretty bad boat to get to other close by islands. liking the dip 3 requirement so you have to make a choice: ports and colonizing or free MPs/tech?
It was funny to see in shen's sungod run to be blockaded .....with 0 ports lol

You're quite likely to hit your dip limit well before unlocking Exploration ideas, so spending it on diptech 3 really isn't that much of a strategic choice. (Your other uses for it are basically culture conversions and the occasional unjustified demands). Still, at least this would actually provide a reason to spend dip on those techs as a native.

 

[Sian]

You're quite likely to hit your dip limit well before unlocking Exploration ideas, so spending it on diptech 3 really isn't that much of a strategic choice. (Your other uses for it are basically culture conversions and the occasional unjustified demands). Still, at least this would actually provide a reason to spend dip on those techs as a native.

You just use your dip points for annexing vassals, leaving you with less land to actually core yourself, leaving you with more admin points to push towards Admin5 getting access to ideas

 

[hwoosh]

You just use your dip points for annexing vassals, leaving you with less land to actually core yourself, leaving you with more admin points to push towards Admin5 getting access to ideas

That's true, but even so, there just isn't that much accessible land to diploannex (especially for poor Mesoamerica) before you run out of targets...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You just use your dip points for annexing vassals, leaving you with less land to actually core yourself, leaving you with more admin points to push towards Admin5 getting access to ideas

That awkward moment when you hit ADM 5 and still can't sell provinces, vassal --> core adjacent, or colonize adjacent to western colonizers for the next 40 years.

Oh wait, it's more than a moment, which is why this region of the world is so gutted. RNW might make it playable, at random.

 

[Peachrocks]

That awkward moment when you hit ADM 5 and still can't sell provinces, vassal --> core adjacent, or colonize adjacent to western colonizers for the next 40 years.

Oh wait, it's more than a moment, which is why this region of the world is so gutted. RNW might make it playable, at random.

You mean by increasing the odds of being playable? It depends on how it works out. Personally I think it'll be just as 'random' as it is currently with some potential for good and some for bad, just more random things in there...

It might lower the chances of Europe ever coming to visit or you have to pretty much 'let them' conquer most of your small island in order to progress... :|. If Wiz continues to not budge on this by not allowing transports or otherwise making the Americas consistently playable and not dependent on things outside their control, I will forever 100% give up any hope of rational changes ever happening.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

It would be funny if you could reform to become high american tech as a new world primitive.
.....provided there are high Americans in said game.

I believe that you can "westernise" off of High Americans already, although it makes you western, not high american.

 

[Rip Off Productions]

I believe that you can "westernise" off of High Americans already, although it makes you western, not high american.

Hopefully an "Americanize" option will get added for flavor reasons with the improved RNW features.

As much as folks complain about the tech systems in EU4 being "broken" or "unrealistic" or "restricting" or whatever, I don't expect it to change radically before we get EU5...

 

[loup99]

Sounds good that it was solved!

 

[FleetingRain]

Sounds good that it was solved!

...Was it?

 

[loup99]

...Was it?

Yes:

I may be wrong but it seems to place things based on the area and what's already there. That's why a bunch of inti states were put bordering each other but the tribes were put apart so they could migrate.

So I think it could know not to place them if there's not others for them to conquer and reform

Ayep.

 

[yerm]

Yes:

So there is a system in place that attempts to put things in a region that can support them? I fail to see how this guarantees the issue is resolved and that you won't still potentially end up with micro islands or regions where no colonizers show up for you to reform off of, but hey, think however you like.