New rewards for Byzantium missions

[Nikita1992]

A lot of time has passed since the release of a full-fledged Byzantium mission tree. During this time, some countries have been strengthened, others have been weakened, but Byzantium has not changed. I think it's time to rethink this situation. China and chinese culture are now given significant bonuses, and why not give strong bonuses to the resurgent phoenix? Now defeating the Ottomans in Greece only gives you land claims, a reduction in aggressiveness, and also monarch points. This is not enough for such a great victory. It seems to me that as the old territories return, power should also grow, and the future lands of the empire should be considered national. The capture of such territories will be more logical. Maybe add special mechanics for the Byzantine and Roman empires, following the example of the Holy Roman Empire or China. Only 2 provinces are needed from Austria, but Austria itself is overly strengthened in the game - huge states (Burgundy, Bohemia, Hungary) easily fall into the austrian union. The Byzantine Empire should gradually grow in power, like all other countries in the game, and should not live in constant fear and try to survive. I can fabricate claims without missions - more substantial bonuses for tasks are needed. I have played over 1000 hours as Byzantium and I understand these problems.

 

[Nostalgium]

The Byzantine Empire should gradually grow in power, like all other countries in the game, and should not live in constant fear and try to survive.

While I don't disagree that the Byzantine mission tree is really kinda paltry, as they're a pretty challenging start, "living in constant fear and trying to survive" was pretty much the Byzantine experience ever since they lost Egypt in the mid-600s, with some highs and some lows. Their diplomacy game, historically, with playing people off one another and making enemies temporary allies or steer them in useful ways is incredible to read about, really.

I would like one thing though; the "Triumph for X" decisions - especially Asia Minor Coast and Anatolia - should convert [insert number thought about and balanced by devs here] provinces to Greek for flavour. Since that can't happen slowly over time like in EU3, where Turkish would assimilate into Greek more quickly in case of a resurgent Byzantium, the decisions would be a nice compromise.

 

[Nikita1992]

I would like one thing though; the "Triumph for X" decisions - especially Asia Minor Coast and Anatolia - should convert [insert number thought about and balanced by devs here] provinces to Greek for flavour.

I agree that the survival of Byzantium is due to diplomatic games. But we don’t know what kind of empire would have developed in an alternative history, and if all countries in the game receive various power-ups as they progress, then it could be for Byzantium too! Why can the Holy Roman Empire unite into a single state, which has never happened in history, and why can't Byzantium make any decisions for its subsequent strengthening? What kind of double standards? Where's the justice?! In terms of population, the population in Asia Minor was predominantly Greek and changing cultures in triumph seems like a logical solution.

 

[ForVictory]

With the new concentrate development, you can use it on every region in Anatolia to easen the religious and cultural conversation while losing some of its development in the progress as in repopulation of areas abandoned by Muslims Turks due to religious intolerance of the new Byzantine policy.
Something similar happened on south Spain at the time of the reconquista.

 

[Nikita1992]

With the new concentrate development, you can use it on every region in Anatolia to easen the religious and cultural conversation while losing some of its development in the progress

This is a very crutch decision - + the greek population has not gone anywhere in Asia Minor at the beginning of the game. So this is not the richest region, and not only in the population of the problem.

 

[ForVictory]

This is a very crutch decision - + the greek population has not gone anywhere in Asia Minor at the beginning of the game. So this is not the richest region, and not only in the population of the problem.

Historicaly the majority of the Anatolian areas were Turkish at the start of the game except in few costal areas. This is where the Turks drew there most manpower base from.

 

[Nikita1992]

in few costal areas

I am talking about these areas, and not about those in the depths of Anatolia. Let at least these areas could be adequately transformed.

 

[Romanix90]

I do kinda agree. Their missions are mostly conquer that, get some prema claims, some bonuses that are meh and that's it. Like you said with resurgence should also come power.

As for missions i once suggested that prestigious events and triumphant decisions be incorporated but also expanded. Like triumph for Egypt or conquest of Alexandria since Alexandria was important city in late Roman empire. And last thing is about their name. Since players are devided why not for example incorporate decision to restore Roman empire into mission so player can decide.

 

[currylambchop]

Byzantium has +25% manpower, +2 tolerance of the true faith and +2 missionary strength for the whole game from missions. What more do you want? 10% admin efficiency?

 

[Romanix90]

Byzantium has +25% manpower, +2 tolerance of the true faith and +2 missionary strength for the whole game from missions. What more do you want? 10% admin efficiency?

10 or 15% culture convert reduction cost, perhaps 25 if it's not to much. Core reduction cost, make it lasting like 10, 15 years. Maybe extra military morale. Just some suggestions. Numbers are highly arguable so i think middle ground can be met.

 

[RMS Oceanic]

10 or 15% culture convert reduction cost, perhaps 25 if it's not to much. Core reduction cost, make it lasting like 10, 15 years. Maybe extra military morale. Just some suggestions. Numbers are highly arguable so i think middle ground can be met.

The final mission actually gives CCR for 20 years.

 

[Ferdinand_Bardamu]

I don't understand why Byzantium is so divisive amongst some in the EU4 community.

It's known that they are one of the most popular tags to play in game, a lot of people have a soft spot for them.

Yet you have a small, but vocal, percentage of people who absolutely hate their existence.

It's not unreasonable to say that Byzantium's ideas and missions are pretty meh. Even if they died soon after the game start date, it doesn't change the fact they are the living Roman Empire. They considered themselves the Romans, the Ottomans considered them the Romans, the Arabs they fought wars against considered them the Romans, the people of the Rus considered them the Romans. The idea that the 'Byzantines' were not Roman was an inclusively Western Europe invention.

I think Byzantium should have ideas/blogging capability on the Roman Empire's level. That means CCR at the very least. I also think they should be able to form the Roman Empire more easIly.

I know these ideas trigger a bunch of people for some reason and I'll get downvoted but it is what it is.

 

[Nikita1992]

Their missions are mostly conquer that, get some prema claims, some bonuses that are meh and that's it.

Thank you very much for your support and approval, I do not understand why someone is not satisfied. These missions were made many years ago and they are already obsolete in the current realities of the game. If I'm not mistaken, then there were decisions on triumphs even before the tasks appeared in the game and they replaced the individual passage for Byzantium. Now they look monotonous and dull, compared to other countries - everything is as you described.

 

[Nikita1992]

10 or 15% culture convert reduction cost, perhaps 25 if it's not to much. Core reduction cost, make it lasting like 10, 15 years. Maybe extra military morale. Just some suggestions. Numbers are highly arguable so i think middle ground can be met.

What generosity! In fact, if you want, I can throw a list of possible bonuses for tasks:
1) "Akritas": -10% of the maintenance of fortresses
2) "Strategikon": + 5% to morale
3) "Byzantine enlightenment": -10% of the cost of technologies
4) "Great Komnenos": union with Trebizond and the choice of dynasties
5) "Greek fire": +10 to the power of the galleys
6) "The way from the Varangians to the Greeks": -10% of the cost of upgrading the trade center
etc.

If you turn on your brains, you can throw in a completely suitable mission tree. As much as the soul desires, there would be a will.

 

[Yhekal]

My ideas regarding Byzantium and Trebizond that I've posted a while ago.


1. Unique byzantine tier-1 government reform.

2. Exarchates of Carthage and Ravenna, so Byzantium is not overextended (same as the Deccan vassal for Mughals)

3. Cappadocian culture and "hidden" Anatolian, both in Byzantine culture group (anatolian represents the local and turkish inhabitants of inner Anatolia, after they are converted to Orthodox faith).

4. Mission effect after recapturing Asia minor coast by Byzantium that changes province culture to greek and orthodox religion.

5. Cilicia tag in Adana province.

6. Coal in Bolu province (and gold in Thessaloniki - can be awarded through mission )

7. Theodosian Walls modifier in Constantinople (local defensiveness buff)

8. Kalamita Fortress great project in Theodoro (defensiveness bonus and naval buff)


Ideas for Byzantium
Ideas for Trebizond

 

[Pandrea]

The first and most important change for Byz should be stop calling them Byzantium and named them "Roman empire"

 

[Nikita1992]

Theodosian Walls modifier in Constantinople

I also wanted to say this! This modifier is very important for Constantinople.

As for Thessaloniki, a separate great project is needed there - Athos. In Bulgaria there is the Rila Monastery, why not Athos?! And in Cappadocia - cave churches...

 

[Nikita1992]

The first and most important change for Byz should be stop calling them Byzantium and named them "Roman empire"

The name "Byzantium" sounds very fragrant .... as for me. Like an expensive incense.

 

[Yhekal]

Plus, I think that if Byzantium is able to reconquer Greece, the stats of Emperor John and Konstantine should be buffed (+2 to all stats - as 1st mission reward). It's of course hard to judge this, but from what I've read they were quite capable, it's just the circumstances that brought their all efforts to naught. IRL it was too late to change the fate of Constantinople. However, if the Phoenix would actually rise.. who knows what could have happen. Their stats like "2 2 2" and "2 2 3" are unfair in my opinion and dont give them justice.

 

[Nostalgium]

I also wanted to say this! This modifier is very important for Constantinople.

Much as I love the Theodosian Walls, the advent of siege cannons and their fall is kind of a significant turning point, and one of many you could conceivably point to and say "this is where the Medieval period ended". The Theodosian Walls were castle-style walls - tall, straight and relatively thin* - and those simply weren't very good against cannons, even if they were the best castle walls in the world. If they were to be added as a modifier, it should have something to do with prestige, and not defensiveness. While the grand cannon the Ottomans used was ahead of its time, siege cannons became more and more common and numerous in only the next several decades, and the time of the tall wall was, simply, over.

And yes, I do also advocate for the removal of defensiveness modifiers on other non-modern castle monuments, unless they were built onto mountains or something where it's the terrain, not the fortification, providing the majority of the defensiveness.

*When I say "thin", I want to extra-special emphasise that mean relatively speaking. Of course, the Theodosian Walls were thick, but they weren't Star Fortress "pretty much a walled hill" thick.