• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Hello guys!
Welcome to my suggestion of reworking, perfecting Northern Europe :)
As the feedbacks are looking positive, i will try to polish this suggestion, so when the time comes we will have a nice rework for the region.

Table of contents:
I. Map changes:
  1. Scotland
  2. Scandinavia
  3. Bothnia and Finland
  4. Karelia
  5. Baltic
  6. Prussia
II. Miscellaneous (under development)
  1. Events
  2. Missions
  3. National Ideas
I. Map Changes

1. Scotland


While Scotland got a buff recently, it still feels lacking. England usually easily conquer it until 1500 in one or two wars. So i propose to give more strength and detail to the lowland parts, by dividing it into Central Lowlands and Aberdeen states.

New provinces (capital): trade good, terrain
Moray (Elgin): fish, highland <--- North of Aberdeen.
Angus/Forfar (Dundee): wool/cloth, farmland/highland <---South of Aberdeen.
Lanark (Glasgow): iron, farmland <---Between Lothian and Ayrshire, so you can't move directly between them.
Fife (St. Andrews): livestock, grassland <--- Small, yet important.
Durham (Durham): iron/grain?, grassland <--- South of Northumbria, not part of it.

Minor corrections:
-Put the island of Bute to Argyll province, as it's not even part of the Hebrides.
-Norway could have some missions, regarding the Isles, as it was colonised by them and ruled until 1266.
-Move the CoT from Ayrshire to Lanark (Maybe also the coal, as it was mined in both places, see sources).
-Change the terrain of Argyll, Perth and Aberdeen to Highland from Hills, Change Inverness to Mountains from Highland.
-Move the coal from Northumbria to Durham.
-New Aberdeen state: Aberdeen, Moray, Angus/Forfar.
-Border fixed for Argyll, Perth, Inverness.

Sources:

http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/sct_cmap.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Palatine_of_Durham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus,_Scotland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee
http://www.wwmm.org/immagini/z_1716.jpg


2. Scandinavia


Scandinavia is one of the best regions in the game, yet it needs a few provinces to be perfect. For example the enormous capital provinces. Besides Sweden is lacking the might to carry out it's historical role, and be a decent rival for Russia or Poland in it's own. So they would need at least a slight buff.

New provinces (capital): trade good
Buskerud (Tonsberg): fur <--- Western half of Akerhus, that was separated from it in the 17th century.
Hedemark (Kongsvinger): naval sup/fur <---- Eastern half of Opplanda.
Roskilde (Roskilde): naval supp/livestock <--- Capital of Denmark until 1443
Jönköping (Jönköping): livestock <--- Maybe a lvl1 CoT, as it was an important market town
Södermanland (Nyköping): fish/livestock <--- Southern part of current Stockholm
Uppland (Uppsala): grain <--- It was the center of the Archdiocese of Sweden

Minor changes:
-Rename the existing Tioharad province to Kronoberg, and change it's tradegood into grain (or maybe livestock)
-Rename Östergotland to Linköping, because that's the state's name.
-There could be an event for the founding of Gothenburg.
-The strait's danish end should be in Copenhagen province, not Roskilde.
-Now there's enough provinces for a decent Östra Svealand with Södermanland, Uppland, Stockholm and maybe Aland, so Bergslagen can be moved to Vastra Svealand state where it does belong.
-Sea tiles slightly redrawn to represen the Öresund better.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jönköping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buskerud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gothenburg


3. Bothnia and Finland


While the map projection shows this area a lot larger than it is really, some provinces are still awfully big (especially Halsingland, compared to being relatively on the south). Besides, Finnish provinces with this little polish perfectly reflect the area at the time. Red dots are the capitals of the -
New provinces (capital): trade good
Angermanland (Härnösand): fish <---Northern part of current Halsingland.
Kymmenegard (Heinola/Pyttis): fish <---Carved out of Savolax, Nyland and Viborg, alternative name Kymmenedalen.

Minor changes:
-Norrland state: Västerbotten, Angermanland, and Halsingland.
-Lappland and Jokkmokk to Laponia state.
-Ostrobothnia/Österbotten state and Enare redrawn.
-Birkaland merged with the northern part of Åbo to form Björneborg/Satakunda province (Ulsby).
-Finland Proper/Western Finland state: Åland, Satakunda, Åbo.
-The new Tavastia/Central Finland state: Nyland, Tavastland, Savolax, Kymmenegard.
-The region also lacks center of trades. Potential lvl1 CoTs: Åbo, Viborg.
-There could be an event in the 17th century for Sweden for the founding the town of Vaasa in Österbotten.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ångermanland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gävle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satakunta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turku


4. Karelia

There's the updated Karelia. You can see the new province in Finland, Kymmenegard.
So while thinking about possigle Karelian states, I realized that this also bothered me somewhat. And it's the extension of Karelian culture. And when I was looking for material I found that my new province is not just more aesthetic, but also historical. It helps to correct the Novgorod-Beloozero boerder. So the province:
Vytegra (Vytegra): fish, woods, novgorodian, to Beloozero state.

Minor changes:
-Laponia state: Lappland, Jokkmokk, Finnmark, Enare, Kola.
-Karelia state: Viborg, Karelen, Priozhersk/Kexholm, White Karelia, Olonets.
-Ingria state: Ingermanland, Neva, Ladoga.
-Change Ingermanland to Karelian culture. I would also like a Finnic culture group with Sapmi, Finnish, Karelian, and Estonian.
-Make Karelian an accepted culture of Novgorod, as they were allies against the Swedes.
-Fixed the border of White Karelia, Enare, Kola and Kajanaland. The grey line is the original border of Kola and White Karelia.
-Ladoga's capital should be Staraya Ladoga (it's viking name Aldeigjuborg could be used by germanic nations).

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vytegra
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/25/3c/ae253cf2eefb09e12aee7208b03f658a.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staraya_Ladoga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish–Novgorodian_Wars


5. Baltic


As it's already powerful neighbours, the russians and the polish got an update recently, the Livonian Order is in the dire situation at the start of the game. This could be eased somewhat by updating it's terribly outdated map. With green the capital of new provinces.

4 new provinces for Estonia:
Wiek/Laane (Hapsal/Haapsalu): fish <---There was the Bishopric of Wiek.
Pernau/Pärnu (same): naval supplies <--- Important town (possible lvl1 CoT), western part of Fellin.
Fellin/Viljandi (same): livestock <---The strongest castle of the Order.
Wesenberg/Rakvere: (same): grain <--- Quite important town, western half of Narwa.
and 2 for Latvia:
Windau/Ventspils (same): naval supplies <--- Was the main port of the Duchy of Courland.
Selburg/Selonia? (Selburg): livestock <---Carved out from Lettgallen and Mitau to represent Courland better.
(We could merge back the new Wesenberg province to Reval and Narwa, and unite Fellin and Pernau for a more conservative version, but we would still need to add a state, so if it has to be done, do it well.)

Minor changes:
-Change the trade good of Riga to something more prestigious, like cloth, and raise CoT to lvl2.
-Give Reval a lvl1 CoT and change trade good to salt? Change the trade good of Narwa to fish.
-Possible releasable tags: Bishopric of Dorpat, Bishopric of Wiek (Ösel-Wiek, claim on Ösel?).
-Estonia state: Ösel, Wiek, Reval, Wesenberg, Narwa.
-Livonia state: Dorpat, Fellin, Pernau, Wolmar.
-Courland state: Goldingen, Windau, Mitau, Selburg.
-And the new Vidzeme/Latgalia/Wenden state: Riga, Wenden, Dünaburg.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakvere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pärnu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viljandi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riga#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_regions_of_Latvia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenden_Voivodeship
http://www.mois.ee/kaart/kaart_eesti_eng.gif
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...1260.svg/2000px-Medieval_Livonia_1260.svg.png


6. Prussia

As I checked the neighbouring regions I realized Prussia definately belongs to this thread, so I decided to include it in my suggestion. Their main rival, Poland, and Lithuania got an update recently, with a new event, which led the Teutons in a dire situation. Not to mention the Baltic region right now is only 26 province, that's less than half of some other regions. And right next to the (likely soon updated) HRE, Prussia's provinces are enormous. With these changes we could not just represent the region historically more accurate, but also alleviate Prussia's problems. All we have to do is resurrecting the Pomerelia state, and add 3 provinces.
Let me introduce you the possible new provinces:
-Bütow (Lauenburg/Bütow): naval supplies, grassland, pomeranian/kashubian <--- Lauenburg and Bütow had been part of both Pomerania and the Teuton lands.
-Schwetz (same): livestock, grassland, prussian <---One of the oldest towns in the region, added by splitting Tuchel, better representing cultures (Swiecie in polish).
-Intersburg (same): grain, woods, prussian <--- Probably the biggest town in Eastern Prussia after Königsberg.


Minor corrections:
-Revive Pomerelia state: Danzig, Tuchel, Bütow, Schwetz
-West Prussia state: Marienburg, Ermland, Osterode, and maybe Kulm (which is currently in Kuyavia).
-East Prussia state: Königsberg, Intersburg, Ortelsburg, Memel.
-Ortelsburg could have Polish culture.
-Stolp, Bütow, and Tuchel could be Kashubian (West Slavic) culture. With this we could reflect the slavic presence at the region.
-Maybe lvl1 CoT for Kulm?
-Redrawn several provinces to fix borders.

Sources:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Polska_1386_-_1434.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Teutonic_Order_1410-es.svg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/K0nigl+BherzoglPreussen_en.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...huania_-_Geographicus_-_Prussia-cary-1799.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernyakhovsk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Świecie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauenburg_and_Bütow_Land
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Netzedistrict1786.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians

http://en.kaszubia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/16401.png


So in total these changes would give 4 new provinces to Scotland, 1 to England, Denmark, Norway, and Novgorod, 3 to Teutonic Order, 5 to Sweden and 6 to Livonian Order.
Thank you for your attention and feel free to add something to the topic :)

II. Miscellaneous (Under development!)
1. Events.
-Founding the town of Vaasa
-Founding the town of Gothenburg
-Gotland pirate nation on ruler death.
2. Missions
-Hebrides for Norway.
-Estonia for Sweden.
-Colonial mission's for Denmark (Caribbean, Gold Coast, maybe even India -Frederiksøerne, Tranquebar)
-Eastern expansion for Sweden and Denmark.
3. National ideas

Previous similar suggestions:
Minor redraw of Sea provinces around Bornholm: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/borders-of-southern-baltic-sea.1035316/ by TheDungen
Baltic patch general stuff: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ndic-nordic-patch-general-suggestion.1046616/ by AirikrStrife
Improvements to Livonia: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-changes-in-baltic-sea.1003803/ by Nikita Dirigable
Scotland: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ce-glasgow-or-strathclyde-to-scotland.979713/ by gronak

(Changelog:
- Updated Bothnia and Finland: New province: Kymmenegard, merged Satakunda with Birkaland, reworked Bothnia.
- Updated the Baltic: Merged Rositten&Dünaburg, Wenden stays united, reworked states.
- Added Karelia: New province: Vytegra, reworked states around Karelia
- Updated Scotland: Changed Lanark, now it has a port, not Perth.
- Added Prussia: New provinces: Bütow, Insterburg, Tilsit. Revive Pomerelia state.
- Updated Bothnia: Gastrikland merged back to Halsingland, reworked states.
- Updated Prussia: New province: Schwetz, Tilsit merged back to Memel.
- Updated Scandinavia: New province: Hedemark. Vestfold removed. Sea tiles slightly redrawn.
Thanks to AirikrStrife, gronak, and qweyt for the suggestions. :) )
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
Reactions:

neondt

Content Designer
75 Badges
Jul 24, 2011
3.046
5.542
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Interesting. None of these regions are part of our focus for the planned Europe update, but I'll save this for another time.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Honestly, I expected it as these areas are not really on the mentioned Brest-Constantinople axis, but I'm glad you will consider these when the time will come. Keep up the good work guys! :)
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
If no development addition, it can be good.;)
Most of the new provinces would have a low development, but adding some is inevitably and necessary. As I mentioned, especially the Livonian Order, but also Scotland, and even Sweden is underperforming compared to their historical might.
 

NaiveCarto

Captain
64 Badges
Dec 24, 2015
350
195
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Most of the new provinces would have a low development, but adding some is inevitably and necessary. As I mentioned, especially the Livonian Order, but also Scotland, and even Sweden is underperforming compared to their historical might.
I hope the province overhaul could achieve your goal, while the issue why they are underperforming seems not on this aspect.
However, I believe, more provinces are better.
 

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.852
815
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
Not that many provinces for Livonia, I want two provinces for the order, Wiek and Selburg, I don't believe more is needed.

I'm also a bit sceptical for that many new provinces in sweden, but it could work. I would prioritize a Västernorrland/Härnösand province (Ångermanland and Medelpad) To reduce size of provinces in the north. There is no precedence for a Norrbotten province before 19th century though

I would like a seperate Öland province, I know it was mostly part of Kalmar län, but since it's an island and occasionally had it's own administration I like the addition.


For FInland instead of adding provinces, they should look over current ones. Birkaland and Rovaniemi are modern provinces. Birkaland should be merged with your proposed Björneborg, meanwhile Korsholm/Vaasa should be somewhat larger and replace Rovaniemi which should get merged with remaining Österbotten.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlands_län reference to historical finnish divisions
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Not that many provinces for Livonia, I want two provinces for the order, Wiek and Selburg, I don't believe more is needed.
Well, this region would still lack a lot of detail with just two added provinces. Right now, the borders reflect historical divisions well, but doesen't represent estonian/latvian cultural lands well. If I had to choose, Wesenberg/Rakvere is probably the most neglectable, but seeing Pernau and Fellin as separate provinces would be great.
Regarding the Latvian part, the existing Liefland could be renamed to Wolmar/Valmiera, as there was an other castle of the Order. I split Wenden because it's very big, but it's also not necessary if someone's not against huge provinces.
But the most important reason i added so much provinces is the Duchy of Courland. It would be great to see it with more than 2 provinces. After all, they had colonies :D
Windau/Ventspils was their most important port, Selburg (Jakobstadt was founded later), as you mentioned, was also a place worth mentioning, and the split of Dünaburg into Dünaburg and Rositten is to reflect historical borders of the Commonwealth and Courland.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Sw_BalticProv_en.png
If you feel like 5 provinces for them is too much, maybe we can add together Selburg and Dünaburg to be Selonia, but i wouldm't prefer that solution.

I'm also a bit sceptical for that many new provinces in sweden, but it could work. I would prioritize a Västernorrland/Härnösand province (Ångermanland and Medelpad) To reduce size of provinces in the north. There is no precedence for a Norrbotten province before 19th century though
Norrbotten is a fine example of provinces existing not because they existed back then, but to reflect cultural difference of the Swedish and the Sapmi.

I would like a seperate Öland province, I know it was mostly part of Kalmar län, but since it's an island and occasionally had it's own administration I like the addition.
I think Jönköping, with a possible CoT, and Uppsala with the seat of the Archdiocese of Sweden are more important, but the devs has a tendency to portray smaller islands as separate provinces, so who knows :D

For FInland instead of adding provinces, they should look over current ones. Birkaland and Rovaniemi are modern provinces. Birkaland should be merged with your proposed Björneborg, meanwhile Korsholm/Vaasa should be somewhat larger and replace Rovaniemi which should get merged with remaining Österbotten.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlands_län reference to historical finnish divisions
It's a hard question because at the start of the game most towns there didn't exist, and I didn't want to change existing provinces, but i like your proposal, i will add this part :)
 
Last edited:

Gustav91

Major
47 Badges
Sep 15, 2008
603
100
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Southern Sweden: I agree except from renaming the county of Östergötland to the city name of Linköping.
Denmark: Good could also dived Schleswig.
Norway: Your more moddest suggestion but split Opplanda and create Hedemark with Kongsvinger as city. Split Trondelag into Nor- och Sörtröndelag med Nortröndelag and Steinkjer(city)
Northern Sweden: No need to split Västerbotten and Norrbotten, merge Lappland and Jokkmokk. Split Hälsingland into Hälsingland and Ångermanland (maybe Medelpad)
Finland: Merge Enare and Rovaniemi. Make room for Satakunda between Finland(Åbo) and Österbotten. Divid Nyland and split out Kymmenedalen. I Like your idea to split Österbotten too.
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Southern Sweden: I agree except from renaming the county of Östergötland to the city name of Linköping.
Well, there's neither Vastergötland province, besides, Östergötland should be the name of the whole state, not one of the provinces.

Denmark: Good could also dived Schleswig.
Well, that could be done also to refelct cultures, but it's not that important, since Schleswig was divided between Denmark and Germany only a hundred years after the game's end.

Norway: Your more moddest suggestion but split Opplanda and create Hedemark with Kongsvinger as city. Split Trondelag into Nor- och Sörtröndelag med Nortröndelag and Steinkjer(city)
Hedemark is a better idea than mine of Vestfold, that's for sure, but I don't agree with that Trondelag.

Northern Sweden: No need to split Västerbotten and Norrbotten, merge Lappland and Jokkmokk. Split Hälsingland into Hälsingland and Ångermanland (maybe Medelpad)
I wouldn't merge provinces Paradox already made, but i remove my Norrbotten province as it looks unpopular, and after all, it's okay now.
But a better Halsingland would be great, maybe it could be a state, as originally it meant basically the coast of Norrland. It could be Gastrikland, Halsingland, and Angermanland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gästrikland <---Gastrikland, while small, was separated from Uppland in the 14-15th century, and is a historical ironworking area.

S
Finland: Merge Enare and Rovaniemi. Make room for Satakunda between Finland(Åbo) and Österbotten. Divid Nyland and split out Kymmenedalen. I Like your idea to split Österbotten too.
I will divide Rovaniemi between Österbotten and Enare, as AirikrStrife suggested, and I'm not sure about Satakunda neither anymore. My reason to add this province was to cut down Abo to historical size, and if we merge it wich Birkaland, it will fulfill that role, and also would be historical, so I will stick with that.
But Kymmenedalen is an awesome idea, as it can also help us to portray the region historically accurate after the end of the Great Northern War, when Viborg was ceded to Russia.
 
Last edited:

AirikrStrife

Bergakungen
19 Badges
Jul 30, 2010
1.852
815
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
Maybe a decent restriction for Livonian lands would be not to add any new areas, and as each area can have most 5 provinces,

Estonia: Ösel, Wiek, Tallin, Narva, Dorpat
Livonia: Fellin/Pärnu, Wolmar, Wenden, Latgalia/Dünaburg, Riga
Kurland: Goldingen, Mittau, Selburg/Selonia

It would add Wiek in Estonia,
Split Liefland into estonian (Pärnu/Fellin) part and latvian (Wolmar)

Add a province for the Couronian panhandle making the borders accurate and making the Curonian area have 3 provinces. I guess I could see a forth province in Curonia, Piltene for the polish province which weren't part of the duchy of Kurland

I don't see why you want to split Latgalia further for historical borders? Remove the strip of land to the south of the Daugava river would make the province accurate. (Dünaburg were always in the commonwealth)



For Sweden I first would like to see an assesment of development distribution and balance before throwing in so many large province, it's easier to sneak in a 1/1/1 Öland, but maybe sweden is due for a development increase, haven't played them in a long time.


For Norrland, I think it was wrong from the beginning to split Lappland, but since it is the way it is, I'm not gonna suggest removing it. For Norrlands coast I suggest three provinces based on swedish administrative division: Västerbotten (modern västerbotten and Norrbotten), Härnösand (Ångermanland and Medelpad), Gävleborg (Helsingland and Gästrikland). Those three provinces could form an area, Lappland with Enare and Finnmarken another, Moving Kola out from the current horrible lappland province and making it part of Karelia instead (and rework karelia areas cause atm it looks terrible)

I'm not sure about Satakunda anymore neither
Make Birkaland is upper Satakunta, but no historical precedence (probably made cause it looked nice) should be renamed Björneborg and be given parts of northern Åbo corresponding to modern Satakunta with the city of Björneborg.

Essentialy I feel Finland should be roughly based on this map


I feel Kainu can stay as the provinces would be too large, and anyway Kainu weren't even really part of Sweden at that time, it could actually be part of Novgorod just aswell
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Bothnia and Finland v2.0

Changes:
- Halsingland split into 3 parts: Gastrikland (southernmost small one), Halsingland, remnants of the the original province, and Angermanland, it's northern part.
- Vasterbotten stays together, no Norrbotten province there anymore.
- Current Österbotten halved, southern half stays Österbotten, northern half united with Rovaniemi to form the new Norrbotten province, no increase in number of provinces.
- The northern end of Kajanaland and a smaller part of Rovaniemi on the east added rather to Enare.
- My Satakunta province merged with the existing Birkaland, to form the historical Satakunda. No increase in province number by this.
- The new province of Kymmenegard/Kymenlaasko carved out of Savolax, Nyland and Viborg.

For Norrland, I think it was wrong from the beginning to split Lappland, but since it is the way it is, I'm not gonna suggest removing it. For Norrlands coast I suggest three provinces based on swedish administrative division: Västerbotten (modern västerbotten and Norrbotten), Härnösand (Ångermanland and Medelpad), Gävleborg (Helsingland and Gästrikland). Those three provinces could form an area, Lappland with Enare and Finnmarken another, Moving Kola out from the current horrible lappland province and making it part of Karelia instead (and rework karelia areas cause atm it looks terrible)
As I mentioned, Halsingland could even form a state, and if my two additional provinces proves to be too much, i would suggest addig Jamtland to it, and now it could be Norrland.
In my version there's a Bothnia state, with Vaster, Norr and Öster -Botten. While Lappland, Jokkmokk and Enare will be a fine Laponia I think.
I agree on the redrawing of Karelia, new South Karelia could be: Viborg, Kexholm, Karelia, (plus maybe Olonets) and North Karelia: White Karelia, Kajanaland, Kola.
Ingermanland, Neva and Ladoga could just form an own state, but they arent really part of Karelia.
Regarding Karelia:


Make Birkaland is upper Satakunta, but no historical precedence (probably made cause it looked nice) should be renamed Björneborg and be given parts of northern Åbo corresponding to modern Satakunta with the city of Björneborg.

Essentialy I feel Finland should be roughly based on this map


I feel Kainu can stay as the provinces would be too large, and anyway Kainu weren't even really part of Sweden at that time, it could actually be part of Novgorod just aswell
Agreed, and I refreshed my suggestion to include our reworked Finland :)
 
Last edited:

qweyt

General
43 Badges
Mar 17, 2012
2.275
1.175
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Pori/Björneborg was not founded until later. In 1444 the capital of Satakunta should be Ulvila or Rauma, which were both founded before 1444. Also what does that red dot on the Kymmenegard/Kymenlaasko province represent? The province capital should be Pyhtää, which is located on the coast at the mouth of the Kymi river and was founded before 1400.
 
Last edited:

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Pori/Björneborg was not founded until later. In 1444 the capital of Satakunta should be Ulvila or Rauma, which were both founded before 1444. Also what does that red dot on the Kymmenegard/Kymenlaasko province represent? I think the province capital should be Kymi, which the whole region is named after and where a chapel was built in 1440, meaning that the village was at least of some significance in 1444.
Good point about Rauma, but I didn't find much about Ulvila.
Red dots represent capitals, of course. In this case Heinola, the capital of the province when it was formed.
 

qweyt

General
43 Badges
Mar 17, 2012
2.275
1.175
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Good point about Rauma, but I didn't find much about Ulvila.
Red dots represent capitals, of course. In this case Heinola, the capital of the province when it was formed.
Ulvila is the second oldest city in Finland after Turku. It was founded in 1365, while Rauma was founded in 1442, so Rauma was probably not very developed yet in 1444. Ulvila is located very close to Pori and lost its city status when Pori was founded and the city seat moved there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulvila

Heinola was founded in 1776 and is not good for the 1444 start. Pyhtää seems like the best option to me.
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Ulvila is the second oldest city in Finland after Turku. It was founded in 1365, while Rauma was founded in 1442, so Rauma was probably not very developed yet in 1444. Ulvila is located very close to Pori and lost its city status when Pori was founded and the city seat moved there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulvila

Heinola was founded in 1776 and is not good for the 1444 start. Pyhtää seems like the best option to me.
Okay, you are right, Ulvila is the best applicant, even though there's minimal information =/

And what's your suggestion for the rest of the provinces, like Österbotten (Korsholm was founded in 1730, but neither the rest of the towns were much earlier)?
 

qweyt

General
43 Badges
Mar 17, 2012
2.275
1.175
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Okay, you are right, Ulvila is the best applicant, even though there's minimal information =/

And what's your suggestion for the rest of the provinces, like Österbotten (Korsholm was founded in 1730, but neither the rest of the towns were much earlier)?
Korsholm was first mentioned in historical records in 1348, so it must have been founded a bit before that. It's fine for the capital of Österbotten. Although it was not called Korsholm until much later. The earlier name is Mustasaari in Finnish and Mussor in Swedish.
 

Entrone

First Lieutenant
Mar 27, 2016
286
53
Korsholm was first mentioned in historical records in 1348, so it must have been founded a bit before that. It's fine for the capital of Österbotten. Although it was not called Korsholm until much later. The earlier name is Mustasaari in Finnish and Mussor in Swedish.
I've red the same wiki article, and a few other too, but I didn't find a town inhabited continuously since 1444. So Mussor could be it's capital until the event for founding Vaasa/Korsholm, if it gets implemented.
Events for city founding could be a thing in EU4. In northern Europe a lot of towns were founded in the Eu4 timeline. For example Vaasa and Gothenburg, to mention the probably most important ones.
 
Last edited: