New player questions.

[Mantriel]

I would call myself an intermediate EU4 player. I don't have the world conquest achievement yet, but I am close.
I just bought and started playing Hoi4 (no dlcs). I started as Italy, got my ass beaten, so I read some faqs, wikis, watched some youtube and played 6 more games (all normal difficulty ironman ofc, different countries).

I am trying to nail my Italy game, I finally figured out which research trees I like, what to spend my PP on etc. I finally managed to crush France and protect my European holdings against the UK at the start of WW2.

6 questions:
1. Should I attack Yugoslavia first? (Before the Germans attack Poland), they don't have any resources that I would need... I don't really see the point (I am trying to survive till 1948 and win for the Axis). I guess it would be cool to attack them at the same time Germany attacks Poland.
2. At the peace deal I got Savoy, Provence and the "Alpes". I didn't conquer Corsica and neither got it in the peace deal. How can I influence which territories I get? I would like to get all of the continental European holdings of Vichy France (and Corsica).
3. How can I conquer Malta and Crete? Naval warfare is complicated for me. Should I train marines or paratroopers? Should I just invade with normal troops?
4. I created quite a few units, mostly equipped with 2 artillery divisions and artillery support and that created an artillery deficit which took me a year to build. I was wondering should I create small infantry units without artillery for defense and use the 7/2-s only for offense?
5. Should I research and add recon, signal, field hospital etc. battalions to my units?

and my main question:

6. Should I defend Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia at all? My troops got surrounded from all sides and they lost the supply points quite easily. It seems to me, that it is much better to abandon Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia all together and reconquer it once I have the Suez-Canal (and Vichy France exists).

If there are any guides you can point me to, that would be appreciated.

 

[CaptinObvious]

1. Should I attack Yugoslavia first? (Before the Germans attack Poland), they don't have any resources that I would need... I don't really see the point (I am trying to survive till 1948 and win for the Axis). I guess it would be cool to attack them at the same time Germany attacks Poland.

If you're going for a historic or semi-historic game, then you might want to not do anything naughty, since higher world tension allows democracies to mobilise for war, esp. the USA, so I'd say don't really deviate from the historical path unless you actually know what you're doing

2. At the peace deal I got Savoy, Provence and the "Alpes". I didn't conquer Corsica and neither got it in the peace deal. How can I influence which territories I get? I would like to get all of the continental European holdings of Vichy France (and Corsica).

Go get the player-led peace conference mod. I'm not joking

If you're coming from EU4, you might expect a sane, sensible peace treaty system, instead, HoI4 has shit like on the regular

Look, we all have our horrific border gore horror stories, the AI is totally brain dead and has no idea what to do, it only knows to mash as many buttons as possible, combine that with the fact that casualties are the number 1 contributor to WS and you get...this

This is why I don't play achievements that much, this is just unacceptable

3. How can I conquer Malta and Crete? Naval warfare is complicated for me. Should I train marines or paratroopers? Should I just invade with normal troops?

NAV bombers is the naval meta and always has been, spam Roach Destroyers or Roach Subs (basically cheapest dingies you can make, they exist solely to bait enemy navies into bomber range and achieve NAV superiority...that or play as Switzerland next [note: don't do this as the UK, USA, or JAP]

4. I created quite a few units, mostly equipped with 2 artillery divisions and artillery support and that created an artillery deficit which took me a year to build. I was wondering should I create small infantry units without artillery for defense and use the 7/2-s only for offense?

Technically the INF meta (as always) is 10 widths, 5 btns. of INF with support arty, support AA, support rockets, engineers, and logistics

There is a guy on youtube called 71Cloak who does all the tests, and, as always, 10 width spam is the best for INF

5. Should I research and add recon, signal, field hospital etc. battalions to my units?

No

Only two support companies from the support branch that are worth it are Logistics and Engineers (Flame Tanks also count as Engies), maybe MP for garrisons, the rest (recon signals, and especially hospitals) are trash

6. Should I defend Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia at all? My troops got surrounded from all sides and they lost the supply points quite easily. It seems to me, that it is much better to abandon Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia all together and reconquer it once I have the Suez-Canal (and Vichy France exists).

No, these territories are worthless, don't bother, concentrate on taking Egypt and pushing to a line in one of two places

Line one is 3 tiles/4 mountains, line two has better supply because Luxor is not a supply dump but Aswan is, both lines permit control of both airports in the province (note: I built these using cheats to demonstrate, they don't exist in the 36 start date and likely won't be built by the AI)

 

[Mantriel]

If you're going for a historic or semi-historic game, then you might want to not do anything naughty, since higher world tension allows democracies to mobilise for war, esp. the USA, so I'd say don't really deviate from the historical path unless you actually know what you're doing

Go get the player-led peace conference mod. I'm not joking

If you're coming from EU4, you might expect a sane, sensible peace treaty system, instead, HoI4 has shit like on the regular
View attachment 848788
View attachment 848790
View attachment 848791
Look, we all have our horrific border gore horror stories, the AI is totally brain dead and has no idea what to do, it only knows to mash as many buttons as possible, combine that with the fact that casualties are the number 1 contributor to WS and you get...this

This is why I don't play achievements that much, this is just unacceptable

NAV bombers is the naval meta and always has been, spam Roach Destroyers or Rach Subs (basically cheapest dingies you can make, they exist solely to bait enemy navies into bomber range and achieve NAV superiority...that or play as Switzerland next [note: don't do this as the UK, USA, or JAP]

Technically the INF meta (as always) is 10 widths, 5 btns. of INF with support arty, support AA, support rockets, engineers, and logistics

There is a guy on youtube called 71Cloak who does all the tests, and, as always, 10 width spam is the best for INF

No

Only two support companies from the support branch that are worth it are Logistics and Engineers (Flame Tanks also count as Engies), maybe MP for garrisons, the rest (recon signals, and especially hospitals) are trash

No, these territories are worthless, don't bother, concentrate on taking Egypt and pushing to a line in one of two places
View attachment 848794
Line one is 3 tiles/4 mountains, line two has better supply because Luxor is not a supply dump but Aswan is, both lines permit control of both airports in the province (note: I built these using cheats to demonstrate, they don't exist in the 36 start date and likely won't be built by the AI)

Awesome!!! Thank you!!!

 

[The Colonel]

I agree with most of what you said, but

Technically the INF meta (as always) is 10 widths, 5 btns. of INF with support arty, support AA, support rockets, engineers, and logistics

There is a guy on youtube called 71Cloak who does all the tests, and, as always, 10 width spam is the best for INF

While 10Ws are really good, they're also more expensive per unit, and since Italy both lacks generals and economy, I would recommend the new standard "ol' reliable" infantry unit, the 9-1 (9 infantry battalions, 1 artillery, with support as you can afford, ideally at least ENG, Support ART, and Support AA).

When it comes to purely defensive units for port guarding (esp. vs. AI), 10w pure infantry or 10w with shovels (engineers) is probably all you need. Just set up the garrison order and then deselect all the objectives but ports. Note that with this unit you want more than one division per tile, so basically spam out as many as you can. Having a general over the unit cap for their army/order type only decreases XP gain as far as I'm aware, and your port garrison general isn't going to be earning much anyway, so you can put 150 divisions under one guy and it doesn't matter.

 

[Mantriel]

I replayed the whole thing. I now justified against Yugoslavia and on the day and hour the Germans attacked Poland I declared on Yugo (just to be able to attack the french earlier), I conquered a much larger portion than last time, I even conquered Corsica still at the peace deal I got the very same thing and had to give back huge territories, Corsica too...
Paradox, with all due respect this isn't fun.
Could you fix your peace deal system?

 

[Mantriel]

I was looking for a "Quick Questions & Quick answers" thread, but I couldn't find any. I have a couple more questions:

1. I have two armies in Africa and no matter what i do they want to go back to north Africa. What did I do wrong?

2. Fuel I have built a couple of refineries, but my fuel situation does not seem to be any better, how many do I need as Italy to be fully self sufficient?

3. I was fooling around with the Japanese-China war now for the first time and got distracted, Malta and Crete are Still in the hands of the Allies, the USA joined them and now that I tried to I have the feeling it is almost impossible to take them. I am replaying the game again anyway, I was just wondering what is your preferred way of taking those islands?

4. Is there a way to auto-pause the game when I have enough command points, PP or other type of variable? I didn't find any auto-pause settings.

5. Is there a way to get Spain into the war (on our side, Axis)? Hungary didn't join this game, can I do anything about that?

6. What would you recommend for me as Italy to manage my fuel problem? Should I go after Iraq, Iran?

 

[FLUX2226]

Paradox, with all due respect this isn't fun.
Could you fix your peace deal system?

Coincidentally, that's what the next big update will do

It will still take a few months until the update, but it helps enduring the current system. And yes, get the player-led peace conferences mod unless you're doing (or training for) an achievement run.

 

[Aeroclub]

A couple of cents about East Africa...I agree that if you just want to "win", it's absolutely worthless. In fact, you should prolong even the initial war with them for as long as you can in order to grind your generals and, dare I say, mine the med (you can only do minelaying mission while at war and that will actually provide a very solid buff against the RN later on).

However, all of that is gamey as hell. There's no secret in the fact that IRL they took a lot of pride in Africa Orientale Italiana and would never even conceive abandoning it. So if you want to roleplay, by all means try to hold on to A.O.I. and even push the Allies out of the region. You will also learn a lot about the game while you're at it, since learning is always better the more difficult your challenge is.

 

[Tsavong]

I was looking for a "Quick Questions & Quick answers" thread, but I couldn't find any. I have a couple more questions:

1. I have two armies in Africa and no matter what i do they want to go back to north Africa. What did I do wrong?

I can only guess, but you probably set them on an battle planer offensive or defensive line anywhere in the north. Just delete it or put them on an new one.

2. Fuel I have built a couple of refineries, but my fuel situation does not seem to be any better, how many do I need as Italy to be fully self sufficient?

Fuel you get from refineries is rather low and i actually only built them for the rubber you get. For fuel trade with romania, soviets . Also taking iraq, iran is an option. From there you can push into caucasus (there is a lot of it)when SU is at war with germany.

3. I was fooling around with the Japanese-China war now for the first time and got distracted, Malta and Crete are Still in the hands of the Allies, the USA joined them and now that I tried to I have the feeling it is almost impossible to take them. I am replaying the game again anyway, I was just wondering what is your preferred way of taking those islands?

Set up severall amphibious landings and make sure you have air superiority and StuKas or tactibal bombers there. Then cycle through the invasions. Do it so the defenders have no time to regain org after one invasion. Using force attack on 1 of the divisions helps to keep it up.

4. Is there a way to auto-pause the game when I have enough command points, PP or other type of variable? I didn't find any auto-pause settings.

5. Is there a way to get Spain into the war (on our side, Axis)? Hungary didn't join this game, can I do anything about that

6. What would you recommend for me as Italy to manage my fuel problem? Should I go after Iraq, Iran?

Yes go after it and then go after russian oil in the caucasus. Also research that technology that gives you more fuel from every oil you own . (Its under industry)

 

[jacekgk]

1. I have two armies in Africa and no matter what i do they want to go back to north Africa. What did I do wrong?

When You click right button on trash icon in Your division menu, You delete all orders. It took a while for me to discover this usage, but this is encridible helpful. I still have problem with some weird orders, which I gave and forgot

2. Fuel I have built a couple of refineries, but my fuel situation does not seem to be any better, how many do I need as Italy to be fully self sufficient?

During peace, if You want to repeat this run, You can build some fuel reservoirs and trade: with USA, Romania, even USSR

4. Is there a way to auto-pause the game when I have enough command points, PP or other type of variable? I didn't find any auto-pause settings.

I think not, I haven't seen something like this, but I think it could be very useful. I'm usually late with decisions and other stuffs I want to do with my country, especially now, on my new PC

5. Is there a way to get Spain into the war (on our side, Axis)? Hungary didn't join this game, can I do anything about that?

Spain after civil war has a huge debuffs to joining faction - for a few years. Technically, it is possible to see Spain as part of the Axis in the late game - 1944, maybe 1945.

About 3 and 6 I have nothing more to say then Tsavong did

 

[realCuervo]

I often throw in a few cavalry divisions around Masawa, Addis Ababa and Djibouti. If they can't hold out, just disband 'em. If they are lucky enough, they can attack north along with Libyan forces towards Egypt.

Remember you won't get much supply so don't deploy any large division here. A good reason you should defend AOI is the a bit rubber and factories in Ethiopia.

 

[FLUX2226]

2. Fuel I have built a couple of refineries, but my fuel situation does not seem to be any better, how many do I need as Italy to be fully self sufficient?

Without any techs to boost fuel gain, 1 refinery = 48 fuel = 1 unit of oil. Meanwhile 1 civilian factory = 8 oil (from trade), so by default civs are eight times as efficient.
As the game goes on, refineries will catch up a bit due to their techs being much more powerful and faster to research than the ones to increase fuel gain from oil, but buying oil will still remain five times as efficient (with all techs, 1 refinery = 168 fuel, 1 civ = 768 fuel).
The advantage of refineries is that you produce the oil yourself, so you can't get cut off from trade.

What this means is, you probably won't be able to fully supply yourself just with refineries unless you don't use tanks/ships and keep your airforce small. But refineries can be a good supplement to your oil from north Africa and the oil you buy from Romania and the middle east.
Think of refineries as a building that provides you with rubber, and the fuel is just a small bonus. You can't increase the rubber gain from trade, and a fully teched refinery will yield 5 rubber compared to the 8 you can buy for 1 civ, so we're looking at a 62.5% efficiency here, compared to the 22% efficiency for fuel. Building refineries for rubber is good, building them for rubber and fuel is even better, but building them just for the fuel is very inefficient.

6. What would you recommend for me as Italy to manage my fuel problem? Should I go after Iraq, Iran?

Conquering them doesn't necessarily increase the fuel you have available, it just means you don't have to buy it anymore (or get it much cheaper if you puppeted them). But it secures the oil for the Axis, preventing the Allies from buying it and competing with you on the market.
If you find yourself out of fuel and the market is already empty (except for the US/Venezuela, which is dangerous trade), you may need to use your tanks, planes and especially ships more efficiently.

 

[FLUX2226]

Conquering them doesn't necessarily increase the fuel you have available, it just means you don't have to buy it anymore (or get it much cheaper if you puppeted them). But it secures the oil for the Axis, preventing the Allies from buying it and competing with you on the market.
If you find yourself out of fuel and the market is already empty (except for the US/Venezuela, which is dangerous trade), you may need to use your tanks, planes and especially ships more efficiently.

After trying the conqueror path myself and realizing a few things, I have to rectify my answer here:

While it's true that technically you could already buy oil from the middle east, conquering Iraq/Iran will still greatly increase the amount of oil for you and the axis. Iran will keep half of the oil for themselves due to their trade law, and Iraqi oil is completely unavailable since the UK has full resource rights there (Iraq has a decision to nationalize the oil, but the AI won't do it).

If you control the oil fields, a part of the oil will go to you directly, and the rest will be available for trade, mainly Axis members. The Iraqi oil fields also come with two resource extraction decisions that greatly increases the oil gain, so the oil you get from conquering them is about double then what you initially see.

And of course, not having to buy the oil means you can train your navy for years and unlock a ton of naval doctrines before the war. The wars themselves are easy enough once you've managed to take a port in Iran, but you will need an additional army for WW2 to defend the territory there, as it borders France, the UK, the Raj, the Soviets and Turkey, all of which will (or can) be hostile towards you at some point throughout the game.

 

[Robosoldier1]

Ethopia at one point in our competitive multiplayer games was called "Mordor" cause of how much an Italian player could theoretically bleed the allies or at the very least occupy them with a relatively base line garrison force in the mountainous areas. It's rather dependent on supply, so typically if you puppet Ethopia you will have better supply compared to not having it. That being said. I am curious how the new update will enable Italy to employ the East Africa campaign. I do hope it doesn't get gutted as it often does now with supply stuff. but really who can say.

 

[DystopianAlphaOmega]

On the French capitulation thing, that’s not a peace treaty in the traditional sense. It’s a specially crafted-out event pseudo-peace to establish Vichy. Before La Resistance, Italy would get Corsica, the French states east of the Rhone, and any colonies, but only if they occupied them at war end. The only way to take the entire south was for Italy to take Paris (preventing Vichy).

Not sure precisely how it’s changed since, but it’s still not a traditional peace conference where each participant has points it can spend in turns depending on participation (this would require defeating France’s faction leader and all majors in it, and even then wouldn’t affect territory already given to Vichy if it formed).

 

[Mantriel]

I replayed Italy like 15 times now. I dabbled a little bit with the other nations too.
I think I am starting to become a better player. I managed to conquer Paris before the Germans, and all of a sudden I have control over all of France. I am not sure what to do about it... (restart again perhaps, I guess without Vichy France we are much weaker as the axis)?

Q.: Could you recommend a Light Tank "build"? (It's early 1940).
I am using a 4 cav, 2 motorized (or mechanized??? the earlier one) and 4 light tank build for 20 width. I was thinking about increasing the width to 40, but if I only add light tanks, the organization goes down to 20-ish, if I add a ton of cavalry the organization goes up to 40-ish, but my soft attack stays low.
I was thinking about maybe abandoning my light tanks and start building and recruiting medium tanks

 

[FLUX2226]

I guess without Vichy France we are much weaker as the axis?

If you have the LaR DLC, I think the Axis is stronger without Vichy, though I do like them for historical purposes. Without the DLC, having Vichy is an advantage, but not significant enough to justify a restart - resources and industry controlled by a player are worth more than those of an AI.

Q.: Could you recommend a Light Tank "build"? (It's early 1940).

I rarely use tanks as Italy because I usually don't have the industry to spare lol. It's certainly possible, but I don't have any tips other than "try to keep it cheap".

I am using a 4 cav, 2 motorized (or mechanized??? the earlier one) and 4 light tank build for 20 width.

The cavalry + motorized + tank division only exists for historical purposes, in HoI4 it's a very bad combination. The main advantage of motorized is speed, which gets negated if you add cavalry. Usually motorized + tanks is the way to go, unless your tanks are so slow that cavalry (or even infantry) can keep up. Cavalry is cheaper and uses no fuel, but is only half as fast as motorized.

I was thinking about increasing the width to 40, but if I only add light tanks, the organization goes down to 20-ish, if I add a ton of cavalry the organization goes up to 40-ish, but my soft attack stays low.

Keeping organization roughly at 30 for tank divisions is a good rule of thumb. An equal split between motorized and tanks is always a good start, then you can adjust the ratios (different doctrines give different amount of organization to individual unit types) or mix in things like tank destroyers or motorized artillery.
For combat width, tank divisions usually aim for either 30 or 42/43. Tanks are best in plains and desert, which have a base terrain width of 90, so you want them to be able to use that as efficiently as possible.

I was thinking about maybe abandoning my light tanks and start building and recruiting medium tanks

Depends on your plans. Light tanks have slightly better terrain modifiers, are much faster and a bit cheaper than mediums, but they will struggle a lot against other tanks and will fall off late game. So on the eastern or western front in 1943 they will do you no good, but for conquering large and relatively poorly defended places like Africa or India, they might be just what you need.

As Italy, your industry often lacks compared to your ambitions, and you may not have the means to produce and sustain a sizeable, high quality tank army.

 

[Mantriel]

I finally managed to accomplish all of my objectives as Italy. It's May 1943, I have all of the little islands and the Gibraltar in the Mediterran, I have almost all of Africa, I have Iraq, Yugo, Greece. We won against the Soviets and I managed to take the Caucauses (and a bit more). Vichy France exists. Everything is perfect.

Q. 01: Now what? Seelion and Island hop to Iceland, Greenland, Canada and the US and finish the war?

Q. 02: Is it a good idea to puppet the non-aligned nations (like Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey etc.)? Would I loose a lot of men? Would I need to use more Garnisons than what I get out of them? I am not sure what to do?

Q. 03: Any tips on Sealion? I have never done it before. I play on Ironman (for some stupid reason), and I don't want to loose all of my divisions because I mess up somehow. (In a previous playthrough I managed to put all of my Submarines into the English channel and they were quickly bombed to pieces, I had to learn ther shallow see thing the hard way).

 

[jacekgk]

Q1- yes, but look, if India or Canada become a major after UK fall. It could happen so late in the game.
Q2- Iran and Afganistan sure, why not (but if You want to restore Roman Empire, I don't know, if You need Iran at least for Your own). Turkey is very annoying pupet, because their focus tree is broken and they can break free and create their own faction.
Q3 - English Channel is very bad place for naval invasion on British Isles. Most of the Royal Navy is swimming here and british AI protects southern ports very heavely. Look on YT for Wilhemshaven trick - naval invasion from Wilhemshaven to Hull works for me almost every time.
For USA - it will be hard. Build 3 levels of collaboration goverments, so You don't need rush to Los Angeles. And cross the fingers, maybe there will be not that many american soldiers at home, if they fight with Japan still, but in 1943 USA are really powerful

 

[LordWahu]

I replayed the whole thing. I now justified against Yugoslavia and on the day and hour the Germans attacked Poland I declared on Yugo (just to be able to attack the french earlier), I conquered a much larger portion than last time, I even conquered Corsica still at the peace deal I got the very same thing and had to give back huge territories, Corsica too...
Paradox, with all due respect this isn't fun.
Could you fix your peace deal system?

Fortunately that's on their list for things coming out with the newest update

With some luck it might actually work