New Ottoman Empire ist absolutely overpowerd and must be nerfd

[Nabroleon2022]

Today i watched this lets play that was made by paradox to promoting the new dlc:

It scares me because the Ottomans are even more op as acutually.
For example: The pashas, which are giving so much tolerance that rebells are playing no role for the OE anymore
Or the new eyalet system: in the DDs it sounds good, but it looks like the ottomans can blitz-subjugate the entire meditteranien - inclusive austria - without any difficulty ore lack of time

I dont see how this MASSIVE failure in balancing could get happen

 

[LukasYork]

Unfortunately they probably won't get nerfed much since this totally ridiculous achievement Mehmet's Ambition exists:

Starting as The Ottomans, own or have Core Eyalets own all the provinces required to form the Roman Empire before 1500.

 

[Sunsteel]

In the player's hand perhaps, but the ai might have trouble with vassal management and decadence. leading to an otto that is about as strong as it is right now but actually collapses. But we will have to wait and see.

 

[Nostalgium]

When the AI can do that, I'll worry. What was the one-tag record again? 30 years?

 

[Sunsteel]

To be honest, I think ai ottos will be weaker because the ai really doesn't get how vassals work. Plus these need favors to be called into wars.

When the AI can do that, I'll worry. What was the one-tag record again? 30 years?

28 on 1.31.6
https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/120if59

 

[Marquoz]

Today i watched this lets play that was made by paradox to promoting the new dlc...

It scares me because the Ottomans are even more op as acutually.

Not a chance. The AI can never pull off even a small fraction of what a skilled player can do. I think the Ottomans will be weaker in AI hands in this patch, not stronger. The unit nerf will be brutal, the AI isn't good at creating or using vassals, it has a hard time with anything but the easiest of missions, and so on.

Don't watch a video of a human player and think the AI will match it. It won't.

 

[Froonk]

It's still a vassalize casus belli and the vassals can't even raise armies.

 

[Gulsen]

but the ai might have trouble with vassal management and decadence

I remember the devs saying in the dev diary for the otto that even the ai is not going to struggle much with the decadence mechanic, I hope they actually made it harder to handle because if even the ai can easily deal with it most of the time without player intervention then it's basically a useless mechanic.

 

[Sunsteel]

I remember the devs saying in the dev diary for the otto that even the ai is not going to struggle much with the decadence mechanic, I hope they actually made it harder to handle because if even the ai can easily deal with it most of the time without player intervention then it's basically a useless mechanic.

The ai is still garbage at vassal management, so they might get a few disloyal vassals and start spiraling after they lose them.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Needing favours to call eyelets into war will be trivial as Ottomans significantly outnumber any other army. Resulting in fast favour generation.

 

[apcio]

Ottomans already can blob and get economic hegemon really fast, so eyalets won't change a lot for a skilled player, also wait untill we will see other nations since England, France, Russia and Spain also get rework so in the end Ottomans might not be as powerful as it looks like (even tho they still will be poweful) compared to those nations

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Ottomans already can blob and get economic hegemon really fast, so eyalets won't change a lot for a skilled player, also wait untill we will see other nations since England, France, Russia and Spain also get rework so in the end Ottomans might not be as powerful as it looks like (even tho they still will be poweful) compared to those nations

I predict I'm getting my first one faith as a certain Sunni nation in Anatolia this next patch.

 

[Me_]

I'm pretty sure Ottomans being super OP is entirely deliberate. They already are powerful but the AI cannot use their strength efficiently, so making them super OP is a way to make the AI Ottomans just regularly strong. Meanwhile the player can make any nation OP anyway by tag switching and the like.

 

[necro84]

I predict I'm getting my first one faith as a certain Sunni nation in Anatolia this next patch.

Timurids into Mughals should still be easier one faith for Sunnis. And If you want to keep eyalets you will be missing monuments

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Timurids into Mughals should still be easier one faith for Sunnis. And If you want to keep eyalets you will be missing monuments

If I can still seize land from them then I should be fine.

 

[Sunsteel]

Decidance was super buffed, as seen in Zlewikk's video. So I think the ai will have lots of issues with stuff like subject loyalty (which as said above the ai is bad at) being at peace (especially later in the game) and the stuff with Janissaries.

 

[bokorthedust]

What's that Rise of the Ottomans modifier? Mission reward?

 

[Sunsteel]

What's that Rise of the Ottomans modifier? Mission reward?

it's a thing to make the early game a little easier iirc.

 

[bokorthedust]

it's a thing to make the early game a little easier iirc.

Makes sense, as there isn't anything else to counteract decadence growth outside estate agendas.

 

[The Macedonian]

I'm not enthusiastic for "decadence" -- no one really likes the anti-blobbing mechanisms and eventually P-dox ends up working around them. Government Cap is just the latest incarnation of this and they ended up fixing their fix to the corruption system by letting you spam buildings that take up no building slot.

Ottomans are OP. Again, I detest the Ottomans -- not because they are "bad guys", not because they are OP, but because the AI Ottoman is too consistently OP. What do I mean? I mean I have literally never played a game where the AI Mamelukes beat the Ottomans down. I have very rarely seen an AI Russia, Poland, Spain, Austria or Timurids do anything but contain the Ottomans and while I have not counted to make a scientific study, I believe that I can count on one hand the number of times where I played a "remote" power where the Ottomans weren't the Final Boss of EU4. It's just boring.

Every game I play, no matter what nation I start as, I have to plan to deal with the Otto-blob. Sometimes, I can launch an early decapitation strike (see Hungary, Byz, Austria, Poland, Mamelukes), but the farther away you start the harder it is to break them apart, or alternatively, you need to wait until the end game units fall apart and you've filled out all your ideas, etc.

The manpower, the manpower recovery, the tolerances, the age bonus, the unit pips, the culture group, the religion, the trade setup -- all of that (I think) was designed to make the Ottomans the strongest nation of EU4 and provide a challenge to the player, when the AI was utterly incompetent at things like economic management and it needed unlimited armies to defeat the player. Now that the AI is much improved (believe it or not, it is) alot of these bonuses are overkill.

A supercharged mission tree and new mechanics are likely to make a bad problem worse. Sorry to offend. Just once, I'd like to play a game where the Mamelukes crush the Ottomans or the Timurids become the #1 AI power. But, I'm not holding my breath.