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PJL

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BTW, are we droppnig the Mughals and China? They're not really adding to the game right now and there's no chance they will be attacked anytime soon by the naval nations, especially the Mughals, who are practically the strongest power in the game right now.
 

Hive

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Fredrik82 said:
The relations with Denmark was excellent till that day Denmark started to collaborate with Poland, while Brandenburg was about to be annexed Denmark vassalized mecklenburg and allied them the moment they revolted from Brandenburg. Later Denmark "bought" Hannover and hinterpommern from Poland. Is this what you call friendship?

Actually, I agree with Fred on this. First, Denmark quickly allied and vassalized a nation that revolted from Brandenburgian rule - and next, they buy provinces Brandenburg had recently lost in a war to Poland...

Denmark is, of course, in her right to do this - but should not be surprised to see Brandenburg hostile afterwards.
 

Hive

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PJL said:
BTW, are we droppnig the Mughals and China? They're not really adding to the game right now and there's no chance they will be attacked anytime soon by the naval nations, especially the Mughals, who are practically the strongest power in the game right now.

I agree that they aren't adding anything to the game, but let's keep them untill something else opens up to be played...

I have from the beginning planned on having USA force-released the Netherlands style (eg. into war with England, where England then have a chance to re-annex). Elijah has expressed that he would like to play USA.

Other people have suggested that having a human Mexico played could be interesting as well, so I guess that's something to consider in favour of the Mughals maybe? Though I'm quite sure both FAL and Babûr would scream and bitch if this was decided...
 
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So, why should you drop a muslim nation East of OE that has been played so skilfully that it might have become the strongest nation in the game?

Is that how you reward "skilful" playing? It would indeed be an amazing feat by Babur if he succeeded in "winning" the game (according to my own definition). And definitely low grades to you Europeans, LOL. If so you are a bunch of losers! :p

China however is a big problem IMO, they are retarded, LT6 and only survive because no one attacks them. I guess no one does it because of any of / some of the following reasons

a) Hive stops them (?)

b) it is not considered to be a "challenge"

c) they are chickens, afraid that MUGHALS (and perhaps PER) will help China

d) their name is Cheecho and they have recently been lobotomised and therefore believes China is able to defend themselves on their own :D

BTW, Persia risks being in a somewhat similar position to China in some 40 years.
 

Tonioz

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Hive said:
Other people have suggested that having a human Mexico played could be interesting as well, so I guess that's something to consider in favour of the Mughals maybe? Though I'm quite sure both FAL and Babûr would scream and bitch if this was decided...

While Babur is bitching, Poland would like to take part in historical split of Mughals and claims couple of CoTs :p
 

Fredrik82

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It is now clear that Poland is refusing everything that will solve the "Prussia" issue peacefully. Today probably the last peacefully negotiation collapsed.
The Diplomats from Brandenburg was ready to agree to any deal if it ment that Poland would let Brandenburg become Prussia.
Poland declined all our offers.

OOC: Tonio even refused the thought with Brandenburg as a vassal for 50 years till 1745, and then a NAP till 1780. Those Poland would be safe from Fred, the person Tonio has been talking about from day one. :rolleyes:
 

Tonioz

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Fredrik82 said:
It is now clear that Poland is refusing everything that will solve the "Prussia" issue peacefully. Today probably the last peacefully negotiation collapsed.:

and probably first ones :rolleyes:

Fredrik82 said:
The Diplomats from Brandenburg was ready to agree to any deal if it ment that Poland would let Brandenburg become Prussia.

After Poland knew Hive`s suprise, we are ready to decline any deal ;)

Fredrik82 said:
OOC: Tonio even refused the thought with Brandenburg as a vassal for 50 years till 1745, and then a NAP till 1780. Those Poland would be safe from Fred, the person Tonio has been talking about from day one. :rolleyes:

Yeah, better die. Stubborness rox. Btw, are Blucher and Klausewitz any way better Fried II ? :p

P.S. I surely can reveal more benefits with deal than being an opposite side, but there were no way back.

Signed by,
Polish King
Tonio The Stubborn
 

Hive

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Daniel A said:
So, why should you drop a muslim nation East of OE that has been played so skilfully that it might have become the strongest nation in the game?

Please get your facts straight: Noone is suggesting to drop the Mughals because they are skillfully played, but because they don't add anything to the game and just sit and take up bandwith. They have ZERO interaction with any other nations; they fight no wars, they do nothing.

Sitting still and hyperteching/hypertrading for most of the game isn't skillfull play, everyone can do that. No offense to Babûr, but he haven't proven himself in this game. Not that anyone have attacked him yet and given him a chance, of course... but the fact that the blame is not entirely his doesn't solve the problem, does it? I can't force the naval nations to fight him...

Is that how you reward "skilful" playing? It would indeed be an amazing feat by Babur if he succeeded in "winning" the game (according to my own definition). And definitely low grades to you Europeans, LOL. If so you are a bunch of losers! :p

Dear Daniel, if you don't shut about about your "winning" the game soon I'll come to Stockholm to shove a pineapple up your arse. :)

Hell, you bitching about us wanting to make Mughals AI just because we are "jealous of Babûrs amazing achievements" almost makes me want to sign a NAP with all my neighbours so that I can sit still and hypertech into the same kind of glory...

China however is a big problem IMO, they are retarded, LT6 and only survive because no one attacks them. I guess no one does it because of any of / some of the following reasons

Elijah might as well play them untill it is time for USA to be released. Or do you have any better suggestions?

a) Hive stops them (?)

Have you ever noticed me make any offical announcements saying "China must not be attacked!"? No? Then that's probably because I haven't said so.

b) it is not considered to be a "challenge"

I don't think people care about challenges when it comes to rich CoTs. ;)

c) they are chickens, afraid that MUGHALS (and perhaps PER) will help China

Most likely the scenario at hand, yes.

d) their name is Cheecho and they have recently been lobotomised and therefore believes China is able to defend themselves on their own :D

Do not underestimate the power of having vast amounts of MP in a defensive war.

BTW, Persia risks being in a somewhat similar position to China in some 40 years.

If that's the case in 40 years, then we'll look into it. But for now, Persia seems to be fairly competitive in my eyes. Or do you disagree? :confused:
 

Yordlama

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Quote:
c) they are chickens, afraid that MUGHALS (and perhaps PER) will help China

Most likely the scenario at hand, yes.
Quote:
d) their name is Cheecho and they have recently been lobotomised and therefore believes China is able to defend themselves on their own

Do not underestimate the power of having vast amounts of MP in a defensive war.

Those are both reasons why i've considered and decided not to attack China at the moment, especially considering the naval nations have poor man-power. Persia is probably in a better position to defeat the Muhgals than I am.
 
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unmerged(11216)

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First of all Hive, yes most experienced players know how to and can hypertech; Everyone except you it seems.

Second, what did you expect when you brought Mughals into game? Did you expect me to fight wars against Persia in the 17th century over sheep provinces? I was actually kind of keen of attempting to vassal Mullimans early Persia. However You eliminated my only reason for war when you introduced the vassal rule. I am not warring against a nation for 2-3 tax value 3 sheep provinces to later get rounded up by them and European Imperialists. What I expected myself? To get attacked by Europeans. From start I was planing to take CoT:s. From start I was planing to build a powerfull Mughals that actually would have the strenght to repell european invaders when they finally would arrive. I have also done alot of in diplomacy Europe. This is my gaming style, and you knew it when I joined. (Hive even knew most of my plans).

Third, you attack me for not contribute anything to the game. Do anyone complain on England or Holland the first 150 years of game when they do nothing but hypertech? (Speaking generally). Mughals contribution to this game, is to prevent European hypertechers to get an easy cake like usual by taking every god damn CoT in Asia. How odd PJL want Mughals gone ey?

Fourth, how much more would Mexico contribute? Being the US:s bitch? Yea, i've seen the US leader file. It is INSANE throughout the entire 19th century. Mexico got nothing to counter. It probably has less manpower, worse monarchs and much worse leaders. Oh yea, did I forget to mention their entire income is based on gold which will result in one million inflation?

You cannot blaim me for trying to stay equal in tech. You cannot blaim me for trying to prevent invasions of my nation. However, if you think i'm only taking up bandwith or whatever, just ask me to quit. Because quite frankly, i'm sick on getting complained on for not trying to make other nations to invade me.
 
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unmerged(11216)

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Besides I just noticed a funny thing, that all colonials keep complaining on ME. Right now I think there's alot of naggin and little workshop in Europe. If you think it's wrong, why don't you freaking do something about it then, instead of keep complaining on me all the time?!
 

unmerged(7276)

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babur has fought 2 human wars i think to be fair. I think ive seen less wars than that, at this stage in the game, from europeans. I must say that if i was a colonial nation i would have dowd one of them by now. Not cos i am amazing player and could win but cos it would be a lark. Actually if you had good leader it would be feasible. You just pick you battles and build up ws. Then you stab hit until they accept. Worth a try anyway. If you loose, so what! They cant touch you.
 

Hive

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Bâbur said:
First of all Hive, yes most experienced players know how to and can hypertech; Everyone except you it seems.

The fact that I don't do it doesn't necessarily mean that I *can't* do it.

Second, what did you expect when you brought Mughals into game? Did you expect me to fight wars against Persia in the 17th century over sheep provinces? I was actually kind of keen of attempting to vassal Mullimans early Persia. However You eliminated my only reason for war when you introduced the vassal rule. I am not warring against a nation for 2-3 tax value 3 sheep provinces to later get rounded up by them and European Imperialists.

Yeah, I know. I personally hate this vassal rule myself, and only added it because of severe lobbyism (read: bitching) from other players. I did a Munich Treatment of sorts.

What I expected myself? To get attacked by Europeans. From start I was planing to take CoT:s. From start I was planing to build a powerfull Mughals that actually would have the strenght to repell european invaders when they finally would arrive. I have also done alot of in diplomacy Europe. This is my gaming style, and you knew it when I joined. (Hive even knew most of my plans).

Yeah, I knew about your plans with the CoTs - and applauded them. I thought it would be nice to see the Europeans face some real opposition regarding those CoTs for once. But the problem is that for rather odd and unknown reasons, the European naval nations doesn't seem interested in getting together 2-3 nations to grab CoTs from you. I'm most dissapointed in that, but what can I do? Force them to attack?

That's not your fault, of course - but regardless of who's fault it is, I must conclude that my plans for a player Mughal have failed. The intention - and you agreed with me - when including the Mughals was to get some interesting wars with European naval nations. That hasn't happened. So even though it's not your fault; the Mughals doesn't serve the purpose we both had hoped it would. And the fact that all players east of OE are bed-buddies doesn't help either.

Third, you attack me for not contribute anything to the game. Do anyone complain on England or Holland the first 150 years of game when they do nothing but hypertech? (Speaking generally).

Yes, I often complain - and hear others complain - when that happens.

Mughals contribution to this game, is to prevent European hypertechers to get an easy cake like usual by taking every god damn CoT in Asia. How odd PJL want Mughals gone ey?

I agree that PJL's motives for removing you probably aren't pure.

Actually, I'd like to use this moment to lash out at PJL and the other naval nations: instead of seeking the easy option so badly, why don't you guys give it a shot and attack Mughals? Or is it only worth it to grab CoTs if they are handed to your hyperteching asses on a silver plate, reachable with a minimum effort?

Fourth, how much more would Mexico contribute? Being the US:s bitch? Yea, i've seen the US leader file. It is INSANE throughout the entire 19th century. Mexico got nothing to counter. It probably has less manpower, worse monarchs and much worse leaders. Oh yea, did I forget to mention their entire income is based on gold which will result in one million inflation?

Yeah, I agree. Mexico would need some edited manpower - and the American leaderfile is indeed too uber. But I don't have all that much knowledge regarding American leaders, and noone is offering to help me tweak any of my AoI leaders...

You cannot blaim me for trying to stay equal in tech. You cannot blaim me for trying to prevent invasions of my nation. However, if you think i'm only taking up bandwith or whatever, just ask me to quit. Because quite frankly, i'm sick on getting complained on for not trying to make other nations to invade me.

If I wanted you to quit, I'd say so. I'd just like you to play a more important role than you currently do, that's all.
 

PJL

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To be honest, I have not hyperteched at all in this game, and people accusing me of not warring in the last 100 years or so is laughable. I've been involved in no less than 4 wars in the last century. In fact, if it weren't for me, there would have been no colonial / naval wars at all (apart from Denmark vs England).
 

unmerged(11216)

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PJL said:
To be honest, I have not hyperteched at all in this game, and people accusing me of not warring in the last 100 years or so is laughable. I've been involved in no less than 4 wars in the last century. In fact, if it weren't for me, there would have been no colonial / naval wars at all (apart from Denmark vs England).

Like I said, I was speaking generally.
 

Yordlama

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Yeah, I knew about your plans with the CoTs - and applauded them. I thought it would be nice to see the Europeans face some real opposition regarding those CoTs for once. But the problem is that for rather odd and unknown reasons, the European naval nations doesn't seem interested in getting together 2-3 nations to grab CoTs from you. I'm most dissapointed in that, but what can I do? Force them to attack?

That's because we all hate each other, and I would say that the rivalry between the naval nations adds to the game as well though, and besides, I haven't been hyper-teching :p (Portugal is the biggest hyperteching colonial nation ;)).
 

unmerged(10894)

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PJL said:
To be honest, I have not hyperteched at all in this game, and people accusing me of not warring in the last 100 years or so is laughable. I've been involved in no less than 4 wars in the last century. In fact, if it weren't for me, there would have been no colonial / naval wars at all (apart from Denmark vs England).

I have warred 7 different nations. Your claim of making all the naval wars is quite laughable I'm afraid. Still, on the whole, all the colonials could have been a bit more pro-active.
 
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feanor73

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PJL said:
To be honest, I have not hyperteched at all in this game, and people accusing me of not warring in the last 100 years or so is laughable. I've been involved in no less than 4 wars in the last century. In fact, if it weren't for me, there would have been no colonial / naval wars at all (apart from Denmark vs England).


You have to keep your facts straight : All colonial nations have been involved in several naval wars : I, for example, have still fought Denmark (twice), England and Holland (twice).
I can add that, IMHO, the main factor preventing Europeans to go for far east COTs have been the fear to be backstabbed by others when going for these ones, a rather severe naval race occuring in this game, with strong rivalries.

My conclusion is that contrary to what seems the popular belief, this game seems to me rather more active on the colonial scene than on the continental one.
 
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There is no need to point fingers and such. I believe all colonial nations have fought more than enough wars. More than in other games I have participated in. The continent saw furious warfare too.

Only Asia lacks it. But that's up to them. One day the Mughals will see a coalition of colonials when they have deciced they want the CoTs. It's only a matter of time.
 
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