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artemis667

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Hive said:
Babûr's excuse is that if he attacks anyone, he will be open to an attack from colonials - and fall behind in tech. Well newsflash: that's the risk the rest of us take as well! What if France and Austria allied (like OE and Persia) and Spain did nothing but hypertech all game (like Mughals)? How much fun would that be?

But having said all that, I must also say that it's not entirely their fault. We have lacked a Russia for some sessions now, and even worse is that none of the colonial nations seems to be interested enough in the eastern CoTs to actually make a move for them...

Hive, in many MP games, three or for colonial Western nations, unchallenged, steal COTs from backwards and unresisting AI countries, then sit around with their five COTs each, make trade agreements, and dominate world trade for 250 years, with no competition. This game's different, because the colonial powers would need to launch a focused and intense military campaign to dominate half a continent's trade, instead of just waltzing in and taking it. There's no free ride for the colonisers. It makes things much more even and more competitive.

As for the Ottomans, I decided it was in my interest to befriend Persia rather than war them, because I suffered early on against a powerful Austrian-Persian coalition, who hit me hard twice over the course of a couple of decades. Since then, I've had a few 1 vs 1 wars against Austria which have been very hard-fought. I've appreciated that Persia hasn't stooped to opportunistically backstabbing me during them (like some other players would have), and it would be stupid for me to war Persia, that would destroy the trust on which the relationship between our two countries is founded. It hasn't been for the whole game, and I don't think it will continue for the rest of the game either.

As for the Mughals, Persia, and China, I haven't got involved in their own foreign policy debates, but I think it suffices to say that not having a Russia has put a damper on the action over there.

I also should make the comment that countries are not likely to go to war if peace is more beneficial to the both of them, and there are no points of cotention between the two countries. This reflects the fact that, in most cases in the east, the border provinces for the Mughals, Persians, and Chinese aren't really all that valuable compared to more central provinces. (Why for example would the Mughals and Chinese fight over Tibet? The provinces are more trouble than they're worth).

I don't know what the solution to this is, without perhaps finding a way to reward players for genuinely struggling to expand. Ultimately, I think the problem is related to the fact that in EU2, economic damage by wars (loss of opportunity to research and inflation) is permanent. In real history, that damage is temporary (pretty much). Because of the 'play long-term' mantra, experienced EU2 players (such as myself) will strive to avoid economic damage where possible.
 

unmerged(7276)

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Its not a case of problem-solution etc etc. Its just a case of you lacking ambition and being of a dull nature. So what if china is low tech. He can use cav armies which are uber at lt 5. OE could easily crush persia while austria was busy so this is no excuse. Still, its up to you. If it was me though id want to fight for the fun of it. It would be interesting/fun, which is enough for me. For me this is the point of the game. Not to stay competitive for the sake of it and hang on to COTs. Whats the point of it if you dont use it.
 
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cheech said:
Its not a case of problem-solution etc etc. Its just a case of you lacking ambition and being of a dull nature. So what if china is low tech. He can use cav armies which are uber at lt 5. OE could easily crush persia while austria was busy so this is no excuse. Still, its up to you. If it was me though id want to fight for the fun of it. It would be interesting/fun, which is enough for me. For me this is the point of the game. Not to stay competitive for the sake of it and hang on to COTs. Whats the point of it if you dont use it.

I suggest an immediate switch. Elijah in China switches with Cheecho in Austria. Then Cheecho DOWs Mughals and attacks him with his cavalry armies.

The only thing I ask for is to be allowed to join in the fight and capture one of the Chinese COTs.

After thus having been relieved of both of his COTs Cheecho shall be punished to play China until the end of the game. :rofl:
 

Hive

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Djeheuty said:
Hive, in many MP games, three or for colonial Western nations, unchallenged, steal COTs from backwards and unresisting AI countries, then sit around with their five COTs each, make trade agreements, and dominate world trade for 250 years, with no competition. This game's different, because the colonial powers would need to launch a focused and intense military campaign to dominate half a continent's trade, instead of just waltzing in and taking it. There's no free ride for the colonisers. It makes things much more even and more competitive.

I know. I wanted to have a nation like the Mughals played exactly to prevent the Europeans from having such an easy ride snatching CoTs in the east. But I'm still dissapointed that noone have even *tried*... like I said: it's not the eastern nations' fault alone.

But as usual, a lot of this comes down to player mentality. "I don't want to fight wars, it's not profitable" is an extremely boring attitude to me. What about the prestige of winning wars?
 

unmerged(7276)

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LOL dan what makes you think you and mughals would beat me? Your a pacifist for gods sake and have probably forgot how to fight :rofl:

Baburs mughal is also pretty wussy and only fights player wars when hes with his gay lover, OE. He likes to hide behind turkish troops like a coward and take pot shots.
 
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cheech said:
LOL dan what makes you think you and mughals would beat me? Your a pacifist for gods sake and have probably forgot how to fight :rofl:

Baburs mughal is also pretty wussy and only fights player wars when hes with his gay lover, OE. He likes to hide behind turkish troops like a coward and take pot shots.

I am very glad you are of this opinion. I take it you have the guts and the character to defend in action what you state publicly in words. Thus we can all look forward to Cheech next Thursday playing China in war vs Mughals and Persia. A 1 vs 2 fight.

It will be a pleasure to teach you a lesson Cheech.

Hive, I take for granted you work out the details between Cheech and Elijah. I am quite sure Elijah would appreciate to play Austria instead of China. I mean, now and then one can see a "zzzzz" coming from the Eastern horisont.

------------------

Spank spank on your butts, that's what you will have for lunch, dinner and breakfast. Poor little Cheecho. :rofl:
 

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Peaceful session for Brandenburg, war is not an option for us since our natural expansion area protect eachother in a defensive pact :wacko:
And i'm hardly in any possition to fight 1vs2.

It was very nice to finally get a random manufactory, after over 100 years of being inno 10. It's a frustrerating to play with the help of the RNG.
After this we built three manus with our own money, more or less :rolleyes:
 

unmerged(7276)

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It will be a pleasure to teach you a lesson Cheech.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

Yordlama

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PJL said:
Considering how inferior your navy is, that's a rhetorical question - it ain't gonig to happen. So my advice to you is to accept the offer.

Whether it'll happen this war isn't the point. I don't see why I should aquies to your demands when you wouldn't do the same in my position. It's not like you're thrashing me anyway. What I might consider is a diplomatic deal whereby I give you those 3 islands, and You give me the two colonies you have in new Zealand. That seems like a long-term peacefull solution to me.
 

PJL

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Yordlama said:
Whether it'll happen this war isn't the point. I don't see why I should aquies to your demands when you wouldn't do the same in my position. It's not like you're thrashing me anyway. What I might consider is a diplomatic deal whereby I give you those 3 islands, and You give me the two colonies you have in new Zealand. That seems like a long-term peacefull solution to me.

I'm not thrashing you now,that's because there's been a couple of setbacks.But with my naval superiority it's only a matter of time before I can forcibly demand territories from you.
 

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PJL said:
I'm not thrashing you now,that's because there's been a couple of setbacks.But with my naval superiority it's only a matter of time before I can forcibly demand territories from you.


Huh? you think my eastern colonies are enough to force a peace demand? You're not going to beat me in a land war in my own country if that's what you're suggesting. I don't really see the point of making peace with you. Based on your current performence, you'll just DoW me again in 5 years untill you have everything, and if I ever want to gain anything from you, i'll have to take all your cores so I can force demand it again. I really think it would be better if we just make a deal and set our colonial areas.
 

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Portugal's session

Peaceful session of expansion for Portugal, capitalising gains of previous wars.

We are however ready to face any threat, developping our high seas navy in numbers as well as in technology.

I think the loss of a lot of ships of our spanish ally, due to AI attrition, should be looked upon closely. :eek:
 

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Yordlama said:
Huh? you think my eastern colonies are enough to force a peace demand? You're not going to beat me in a land war in my own country if that's what you're suggesting. I don't really see the point of making peace with you. Based on your current performence, you'll just DoW me again in 5 years untill you have everything, and if I ever want to gain anything from you, i'll have to take all your cores so I can force demand it again. I really think it would be better if we just make a deal and set our colonial areas.

Obviously I will more than what you have in the east from you to force a peace with you. Unless you break out of England, there is little you can do.
 

Zeitgeist

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feanor73 said:
Peaceful session of expansion for Portugal, capitalising gains of previous wars.

We are however ready to face any threat, developping our high seas navy in numbers as well as in technology.

I think the loss of a lot of ships of our spanish ally, due to AI attrition, should be looked upon closely. :eek:

AFAIK, the AI doesn't suffer attrition? Unless those ships were lost in war of course :)
 

admiral drake

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Zeitgeist said:
AFAIK, the AI doesn't suffer attrition? Unless those ships were lost in war of course :)

ai doesn't but he sends them to the sea and when player comes back they all die on way back due high atrition
 

Hive

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Daniel A said:
Hive, I take for granted you work out the details between Cheech and Elijah.

You assume too much. ;)

If you 3 want to play around to determine which one of you is the alpha male by doing this little switcheroo, you can do so outside NOIV.

feanor73 said:
I think the loss of a lot of ships of our spanish ally, due to AI attrition, should be looked upon closely. :eek:

How many ships are we talking about?
 

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PJL said:
Obviously I will more than what you have in the east from you to force a peace with you. Unless you break out of England, there is little you can do.

I don't really rate your abilities in a land war. This is a stalemate really. Anyway, wont you talk about a longer-term deal with me?
 

artemis667

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Yordlama said:
I don't really rate your abilities in a land war. This is a stalemate really. Anyway, wont you talk about a longer-term deal with me?

Just of curiosity, has PJL got you blockaded?

My two cents, I reckon a long-term deal would probably be of advantage to both of you. But I understand why PJL's sore :)