New Order IV

[unmerged(21937)]

While I think Persia (with Mughals protecting Persia itself), Venice and Austria vs OE borders on a gang, I never said Poland and OE vs Austria wasn't one.

There's too little fair fights in this game.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

There's too little fair fights in this game.

I yet have to see the first one.

 

[Hive]

Hmmm, just realised that since I broke away from Freisland, I still only have trade 2, and not trade 3. This wouln't be so bad if all income saved in between techs were not lost when a nation is inherited. I have looked at Freisan stats for 1553 and noticed that they would have got both infra 3 and trade 3 in 1568.

So I propose that my infra and trade should both be edited to 3 each. I also propse that my naval tech be increased to level 4 (since some of that was also lost). Land tech is fine however.

I think this is a fair boost for the Dutch - even with those edits, their tech is still worse than the OE (including naval).

Edit - naval should be 4 not 5.

I think that's fair.

And let it be known to all that Venice is now a pariah as far as France is concerned, and that France will not try to stop anyone seeking land from this betraying republic.

 

[Hive]

While I think Persia (with Mughals protecting Persia itself), Venice and Austria vs OE borders on a gang, I never said Poland and OE vs Austria wasn't one.

There's too little fair fights in this game.

I agree, sadly.

But as long as Austria keeps gangbanging OE, I won't rule out participating in another "gangbang" on them either (even though I do not fully agree that France+OE+Poland-Lithuania vs. uber Austria and Spain as well as Brandenburg is a gangbang).

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Daniel A. will sub me next week.

His ICQ: 279-304-318

 

[Hive]

Btw, Tonio feels that he should get Ruthenian culture.

Anyone agree with him?

 

[unmerged(7276)]

But as long as Austria keeps gangbanging OE, I won't rule out participating in another "gangbang" on them either (even though I do not fully agree that France+OE+Poland-Lithuania vs. uber Austria and Spain as well as Brandenburg is a gangbang).

refer to my previous post on what i think of hat. You are experienced enough to know what suleyman OE is capable of. Ive seen them hold off france-aus-spain russia before. They are usually more than capable of defeating austria and spain. I had to pace poland + OE + some french. Brand did join but not after poland had invaded me. SPain more or less took on france 1v1 but you were still able to spare men to attack me in savoy. Saying that we keep ganging OE is clearly bias crap. You are full of it. Yuo keep attacking austria and speaking against us. We only attacked your alliance once and that was response to spains vassal being annexed. France is a turk loving, frog easting swine and i hope you choke on your civil war

 

[Tonioz]

Btw, Tonio feels that he should get Ruthenian culture.

Anyone agree with him?

It`s Hive who promised that.

Well, Poland with 60MP (and i need to cede 4 provinces) as max ain`t competitive to more manpowerish neighbors. Even BRA has 1.5 times more

 

[Hive]

But as long as Austria keeps gangbanging OE, I won't rule out participating in another "gangbang" on them either (even though I do not fully agree that France+OE+Poland-Lithuania vs. uber Austria and Spain as well as Brandenburg is a gangbang).

refer to my previous post on what i think of hat. You are experienced enough to know what suleyman OE is capable of.

Yes, but you guys dowed just before he died. Besides, I have also seen Portugal defeat Spain in 1 on 1s, Venice defeat OE in 1 on 1s, etc - but what does that have to do with this game? Nothing.

OE, in this game, clearly isn't capable of wrecking the kind of havoc you describe.

Ive seen them hold off france-aus-spain russia before. They are usually more than capable of defeating austria and spain. I had to pace poland + OE + some french. Brand did join but not after poland had invaded me. SPain more or less took on france 1v1 but you were still able to spare men to attack me in savoy. Saying that we keep ganging OE is clearly bias crap. You are full of it. Yuo keep attacking austria and speaking against us. We only attacked your alliance once and that was response to spains vassal being annexed. France is a turk loving, frog easting swine and i hope you choke on your civil war

Damn straight I keep attacking you. And you haven't seen the last of my attacks, I can promise you that. Why? Because you keep advancing in Italy, forcing me to now annex Savoy and do the same as a counter-measure, which I didn't want to. But France cannot tolerate Austrian presence beneath the Po, and will take measures to ensure Austrian withdrawal from these areas.

And it is sad (and extremely odd, I'm sure most people will agree) to see Venice in bed with Austria and Spain, who practically own all of Italy between them - while nations like France and OE, seemingly unsuccesfully, keep offering Venice help...

But both Austria and Venice will eventually reap what they have sown. Especially Venice, who betrayed us.

 

[artemis667]

I yet have to see the first one.

It's the nature of the beast, I think. Wars without a definite advantage to one side can have a tendency to be inconclusive and expensive, and they're likely to end when one side or the other gets backstabbed. As such, people are reluctant to start them.

Cheech is right when he says that Suleyman OE is strong, although I don't think you can look at what a HoG or Damo does in one game and say that the OE is always going to perform that strongly. I know when there's no point to fighting a war, and sometimes when facing adverse odds, you're best off making concessions. There's no point running up +10 inflation to hold off the inevitable.

Anyway, I am looking forward to initiating some 1 vs 1 wars in the next couple of sessions (maybe 1 vs 2 if need be)... so long as I'm not alone fighting 2 majors at once who are being backed up with significant financial and military aid, I figure I'll do okay.

 

[artemis667]

It`s Hive who promised that.

Well, Poland with 60MP (and i need to cede 4 provinces) as max ain`t competitive to more manpowerish neighbors. Even BRA has 1.5 times more

Interesting point that, doesn't Brandenburg have half of Germany as his vassal?

How much MP do vassals give in this game compared to actually owning the provinces outright? I heard there was some sort of bug making it more than it actually should be, or something...

 

[Fredrik82]

There's too little fair fights in this game.

I think that Poland-Brand war was a fair fight.

Anyway, if Russia have Ruthenian culture then Poland should defenetly have it also.
Personly im against it though

 

[devil]

Interesting point that, doesn't Brandenburg have half of Germany as his vassal?

How much MP do vassals give in this game compared to actually owning the provinces outright? I heard there was some sort of bug making it more than it actually should be, or something...

Its a huge Bug, the addition is totally screwed once you get above 1 vassal. A nice touch is a prov can even provide more MP than it has!!! to the overlord . But the best part is even if you lose a vassal or annex it yourself, you still get to keep the MP bonus you got from that vassal.:wacko:


BTW.... this game needs more Screenies...

 

[unmerged(18425)]

The manpower from vassals is really awful. Brandenburg having more manpower then Poland? Come on.

And this combined with the vassals being unable to peace out before BB peaces itself...

 

[unmerged(7276)]

Yeah i find there tends to be more interesting wars in the later game where people are more confident. Nations are more fragile in the early years.

BTW venice TE is rather good. They should really be trading more. LT is terrible though..

 

[Fredrik82]

About 20 percent of my MP pool is from electors.

 

[Hive]

Anyway, if Russia have Ruthenian culture then Poland should defenetly have it also.
Personly im against it though

Russia will get it later... so eh, I suppose it's fair enough to give it to Poland also.

 

[unmerged(11216)]

First, I just want to notice that the Emperor of the 2nd Mongolia supported the Shah in these two latest wars because we owed them for various matters (And it is not my style to let a leader like Akbar go unused).

Second, I don't really understand why Holland, aka the biggest hypertecher in EU(no offence on PJL), should get infra/trade boosted to 3/3? That's better then most of the Europeans, and it's not like they'll have a hard time to stay equal or even run away in tech. I'd figure infra 2 and trade 3 is fair. (Just a suggestion, so no need to tear me apart now).

 

[Konrad der Rote]

Now, why does Venice do what Venice does? It's MOST aggravating. I guess Venice feels that it's only option is to cozy up to the Hapsburgs... but given that both Austria and Spain each own more Italian provinces than Venice herself, I suspect this is a flawed strategy. Time will tell.

So let's see first OE gangs Austria, then OE gangs Persia and then the Sultan treathens Venice and dows my alliance.
And he's surprised that these nations later declare war on him.

Of course OE has helped Venice before but so has France and Austria. And even when relations were bad the Habsburgs never threatend me although they could have finished Venice easily. When relations with OE were good I got a thread and a Dow. Just seems that the Sultan sitting on four of my cores overestimated the capability of his navy.

Especially Venice, who betrayed us.

Sad, the Doge wanted to maintain good relations with France but it seems France approived Ottoman threads against Venice all along. Seems the French King reasoned that the goodwill of his big ally is more important than venetian neutrality.

while nations like France and OE, seemingly unsuccesfully, keep offering Venice help...

Sure France offered Venice to join in an attack against Austria. We had that before, then OE peaced out and France concentraded fully on Spain leaving Venice in a landwar with Austria and Hungary. We know our allies had reasons for what they did but Venice just can't affort such "help".

But as long as Austria keeps gangbanging OE

So what should Austrian Archduke do to reclaim his rightful provinces as King of Hungary. Fight "hounorable" 1 vs. 1 against an empire clearly more powerful just to hand the Sultan the whole Balcan? Sadly the word alliance seems to not exist in Farsi language and Persia the initiator of the war betrayed it's allies for some quick gains.
(And no, I don't think Venice is a factor in these wars. Probably shouldn't say this as it hurts my diplomacy but it's the sad truth.)

BTW venice TE is rather good. They should really be trading more. LT is terrible though..

Well on beginning of last session I already had as much tradeincome as the rest of my income but it's difficult to maintain if you only get 2 merchants a year. Probably should have worked on free trade slider earlier.

 

[Hive]

Sad, the Doge wanted to maintain good relations with France but it seems France approived Ottoman threads against Venice all along. Seems the French King reasoned that the goodwill of his big ally is more important than venetian neutrality.

OE is not any ally of France, we just often happen to have mutual interests.

And it is Venice who ruined the good relations with France. The king of France did not allow Venice to annex his vassal, Modena, just for your republic to pass it on to Austria - whom you knew very well we had been trying hard to keep *out* of Italy.

You betrayed us, and will pay dearly for it. Mark my words.