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Oct 28, 2003
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My initial objective for this mod was to adjust AA capability. Originally, CL's were the answer to all your AA needs. Which unfortunately reduced the real life roles of BB's and CA's in providing AA protection to fleets. But as I dug into the numbers, I found a number of odd values in many of the ship characteristics. The more I looked, the more I felt a need to make changes to produce something which would more closer reflect the actual roles of the different classes of surface ships. I also wanted to have real life reasons to build a balanced fleet.

So here is a mod for naval ships. I would certainly appreciate any feedback and rational which would produce a more realistic depiction of the ship classes. I tested this mod using in the Pacific using Spocky DAIM's Japanese mod. Had some interesting battles with some good results.

List of changes:

1. Adjusted AirAttack values. In the original, most AA capability was concentrated in the CL. In reality, CL's,. outside of specialty CLAA ships, did not have extraordinary AA capability. BB's and CA's had extensive AA capability as the war progressed. I took the sum of the AA capability between the DD, CL, CA and BB classes and redistributed the sum to give more AA capability to BB's and CA's. I gave advanced BC's values slightly less than BB's.

Any AirAttack values of one were increased to two. Most anti-air combat will have some anti-stacking penalties. Any penalty will cause any one value AA to decrease to zero. They will not participate in anti-aircraft. To prevent this problem, I increase one values to two.

I increased carrier AirAttack values by adding in the AirAttack values of their CAG's. The objective is to increase the damage sustained by land based bombers when attacking a fleet protected by fighters. Their is a slight to medium impact on the damage suffered by NavBombers and other land based bombers in particular if the land bombers lack fighter protection. Carrier to carrier battles still produce decisive results in my tests.

2. Adjusted AirDefense values. Air defense values determine whether a ship is more likely to be hit by air attack. Originally, DD's and CL's had higher air defense values than larger ships up through the Basic models. I reduced the early model DD/CL's air defense values and bumped up the early model CA and BB's. I did not touch the CV's.

3. Adjusted SeaDefense values. Seadefense values determine the likelihood of being hit and damaged in surface combat. By late models, originally DD's are shown as harder to sink than improved light cruisers. This may be a reflection of the DD representing a number of ships. But regardless, I slightly reduced the sea defense value of later model DD's. I slightly reduced the seadefense values of mid model CL's. I slightly increased the seadefense values of late model CA's. The BB's/BC's and CV's looked great.

4. Adjusted SeaAttack values. SeaAttack values looked pretty good for the most part. I felt the CL's were a bit overrated in the early models vs the CA's. So slightly adjusted downward the CL' values. They still have the range and armament to hit DD's hard.

5. Adjusted SubAttack values. CL's did not have significant anti-sub capability. In some navies, they did serve as DD flotilla leaders. So I did not remove the capability entirely but reduced the mid-late model anti-sub capabilities substantially. DD's will be necessary if you want real anti-sub capabilities. I also completely removed anti-sub capability from CA's, BB's and BC's. They didn't have any unless you count their float planes.

6. Adjusted Shore Bombardment values. In the original, DD's and CL's have substantial shore bombardment capabilities. A late model DD has the same shore bombardment capability as a mid and late model CA. Later model CL's actually have greater shore bombardment values than CA's and most BB's. I reduced the bombardment values of DD's and CL's. I am working under the assumption that low weight shells are less capable against prepared fortifications than the heavier weight armaments of CA's and BB's.

7. Final note. In the mod, I include a spreadsheet containing the new values for each class. In parentheses, I include the original values. You can very quickly see what changes I have made.

8. To install. Go to DB/Units folder. Make a backup copy of the entire folder. Then unzip/extract the mod file within the DB/Units/Division folder. Answer "yes" when asked to overwrite existing files. The mod will overwrite the DD, CL, CA, BB, BC and carrier files. It will also place a spreadsheet into the folder containing the new ship values with the old values in parenthesis if you are curious as to the exact changes made.

Send me a email to TalleyKen@bellsouth.net if you would like to try this mod. I would appreciate any feedback.

Hope you enjoy.
 

e-stab

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This is interesting work you're doing here on naval combat, as well as your considerations about the destroyer values! HoI 2's naval combat system is a really great improvement, but it still has a few weaknesses - one of them not being moddable unfortunately: the possibility to flee at will.
I think your work goes in the right direction, and I'll try it out in the next campaign. :cool:
 

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I didn't have the time yet to play with your naval modifications, but I took a closer look and they look promising. To anyone wondering: Jagger's Naval Mod is downloadable on the site linked in Lt Hilsdorf's signature, first link on the left on his site, you'll have to scroll down a bit. Jagger, perhaps you'd want to add a direct link somewhere here. ;)
It was a good idea to include the spreadsheet with your modifications, but I have two questions: What does the last column, "Bombardment", represent? I had problems matching the values in it with the old and new shore bombardment values. And you included changed values of the naval bomber in your spreadsheet, but the zip file doesn't contain a changed naval_bomber.txt.
Besides these little issues, keep up the good work! :)
 
Oct 28, 2003
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Hi G'Kar,

I sent an private email to Steel. Although if he is like me, he doesn't notice private email very often. I missed one for two weeks before I noticed it. I would definitely like to host it somewhere here as well.

On the NavBombers, I did some experimenting by reducing slightly their surfacedefense values. I am not yet convinced it is necessary or wise.

Every ship in a TF fires a number of times each hour equal to their airattack value. Each shot reduces the airdefense value of the NavBomber by one during each round of combat. So a 1st level navbomber has a surfacedefense of 8. This results in the first 8 shots blocked and producing 20 percent chance of damage. Every shot over 8 per hour produces free shots at 40 percent chance of damage.

So how does that play out in the game.

For example:
An early war second level fleet of 2 DD's, 1 CL, 1 CA and 2 BB's will have 6 AA shots (using mod values) vs the first level NavBomber defense of 8 (orginal values). No free shots there each hour. But a fleet of 9 or more ships will get free shots even with early war ships.

Now look at a later war, fourth level fleet of 2 DD's, 1 CL, 1 CA and 2 BB's. They will have 37 AA shots in one hour. A third level NavBomber has an airdefense of 16. The NavBomber is going to take a ton of free shots and be decimated. And this damage is from a small 6 ship task force.

I think the original values of NavBombers combined even with the original AA values are fine. NavBombers were deadly in the early war against ships with limited AA capability. The Prince of Wales and Repulse were a demonstation of their deadliness when figher support was not available. As time went by, the NavBombers became increasingly vulnerable.

IMO, the problem with NavBombers was their effectiveness against carriers with fighter defense. In my testing, increasing the airattack values of carriers by adding in the airattack values of their CAGs makes a big difference. Although early war carriers with small CAGs were not that big and are still very vulnerable to bomber attack. Level three carriers and up see some significant damage inflicted on NavBombers.

So I experimented with changing NavBomber values but I don't think it is a necessary change. They are powerful early war and much weaker as new classes of ships come out. And the more even distribution of AA with the mod ensures Navbombers will take AA from any task force-not just those with CL's.

The bombardment values are for shore bombardment. I only changed values for DD's and CL's. I will doublecheck to see if there are any errors contained.

Unfortunately, you have to start a new campaign before the new values will kick in.

When you try it, definitely let me know what your thoughts are.
 
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