This seems totally unrealistic. They should probably decrease the AA benefit you get from other ships or tweak some other variable. Just sounds too high. Perhaps increase individual ship AA's ability to compensate slightly.
New naval combat mechanics...
- Thread starter Jorgen_CAB
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This seems totally unrealistic. They should probably decrease the AA benefit you get from other ships or tweak some other variable. Just sounds too high. Perhaps increase individual ship AA's ability to compensate slightly.
Has anyone tested equal IC of ships for carriers + supporting ships versus non-carrier aa heavy fleets?
Carriers are very useful as floating airfields as air superiority is so good for your navy performance. Having air superiority can maybe triple the amount of detection you make which is a huge thing, like think how many convoys you can sink if you can detect them 3 times as often.
Played 2 Japanese and 1 Italian campaign and have not seen torpedoes do the amount of damage people are claiming them to have. Then again, I only play SP, so maybe not as broken when people stack torpedo bonuses.
Battleships and carriers have similar IC cost. The difference is mostly tech. To have effective carrier fleets you need to research more.
Battleships and carriers have similar IC cost. The difference is mostly tech. To have effective carrier fleets you need to research more.
Yes page 3 on this thread, @sterrius did some nice tests.
So we finally know how the system works. but what are your thoughts? I think it cant be the way that every nation has to build carriers with fighters only to get somekind of air cover against naval bombers. AA should clearly not as effective as figther but somehow valueable. What will happen else in mp rounds? Everybody will build carriers with fighters only like in 1.5.x. that should be avoided again.
Are we looking at the same tests? I don’t see sterrius claim the tests were equal in industrial capacity value, and also his tests seem to find that equipping 10aa (easily doable with starting tech for countries with first aa 1936 aa tech) basically makes naval bombers very weak, so your comment about carrier fighters for cover against naval bombers seems strange to me, since carrier fighters can be countered by other fighters but ship antiair is hard to counter since its softly capped (though hard capped on slots I suppose) whereas planes in a naval battle are hard capped by carriers deck size and naval strike limit that is based on enemy fleet size.
Today i finally tested a little ship Detection.
I put those badboys as germany playing kind normally and more MP oriented. I messed things a little due to lack of practice. (don´t play on MP since 1.3 ^^) but ok enough to make sure this is possible to pull in a MP game without sacrificing much. (if its going to pay for itself depends on your naval performance
) .
They are quite complete because they where going to the atlantic without screens. (Cruisers are considered a capital ship if they put a Heavy cannon and that avoids deep ocean penalty).
Surface visibility even with all of that is quite good thanks to german manufacturer.
Also germany have a admiral that lower that even more. (around -10% if i remember right).
Also only 4 of them was enough to get 100% naval supremacy in the region.
Later i went to England and made 10 of those. (As 5 was not enough to get naval supremacy in the mid atlantic).
Just a scout DD to quickly find enemys and outrun any fleet with a slow BB. I forgot the depth charge (As the idea is to use those also for convoy escort) but inconsequential for the test.
And below is the result.
40.2 surface detection = -3.32% Detection chance for the enemy.
Also 38.2 (DD) vs 39.9 (Cruiser) = 1.7 knot = -0.09% chance to detect. That means 1 Knot = -0.052 % chance to detect a ship.
This also greatly reinforce how Air Superiority, Radar coverage and Encryption are important if you plan to raid.
As they give huge bonuses to avoid/find the enemy.
Reason UK might want to have a carrier fleet in the atlantic with Fighters to help finding enemys.
But a carrier with fighters will be vulnerable to BB´s......
rock, paper, scissor ^^.
Im still going to try to isolate each component of Detection/ Avoid.
This area is pretty much the most important part of the new naval mechanic.
Someone that master this will be able to have ships that are going to be a pain to find and kill while they choose the battles and murder everything they want.
I put those badboys as germany playing kind normally and more MP oriented. I messed things a little due to lack of practice. (don´t play on MP since 1.3 ^^) but ok enough to make sure this is possible to pull in a MP game without sacrificing much. (if its going to pay for itself depends on your naval performance
) .
They are quite complete because they where going to the atlantic without screens. (Cruisers are considered a capital ship if they put a Heavy cannon and that avoids deep ocean penalty).
Surface visibility even with all of that is quite good thanks to german manufacturer.
Also germany have a admiral that lower that even more. (around -10% if i remember right).
Also only 4 of them was enough to get 100% naval supremacy in the region.
Later i went to England and made 10 of those. (As 5 was not enough to get naval supremacy in the mid atlantic).
Just a scout DD to quickly find enemys and outrun any fleet with a slow BB. I forgot the depth charge (As the idea is to use those also for convoy escort) but inconsequential for the test.
And below is the result.
40.2 surface detection = -3.32% Detection chance for the enemy.
Also 38.2 (DD) vs 39.9 (Cruiser) = 1.7 knot = -0.09% chance to detect. That means 1 Knot = -0.052 % chance to detect a ship.
This also greatly reinforce how Air Superiority, Radar coverage and Encryption are important if you plan to raid.
As they give huge bonuses to avoid/find the enemy.
Reason UK might want to have a carrier fleet in the atlantic with Fighters to help finding enemys.
But a carrier with fighters will be vulnerable to BB´s......
rock, paper, scissor ^^.
Im still going to try to isolate each component of Detection/ Avoid.
This area is pretty much the most important part of the new naval mechanic.
Someone that master this will be able to have ships that are going to be a pain to find and kill while they choose the battles and murder everything they want.
Interesting.
I didn't noticed that your own fleet's detection chance can override the other fleet's detection chance.
I didn't noticed that your own fleet's detection chance can override the other fleet's detection chance.
i will be posting a full guide soon . Unfortunaly i lost 4 hours to find out the Submarine formula because there is a bug in the display not showing the Sub Visibility status instead of sub detection.
On the forum or Steam's guide? Either way won't hurt to post in multiple place.
Has anyone done any testing post-patch but with MtG itself disabled?
I ask because the stats of premade ships appear to be REALLY messed up.
Looking at the code, it appears they've been given the base stats of their pre-patch equivalents, and then new modules on top.
I ask because the stats of premade ships appear to be REALLY messed up.
Looking at the code, it appears they've been given the base stats of their pre-patch equivalents, and then new modules on top.
something I'm having trouble with is I don't understand how to delete naval orders. Like this example here, I don't want the fleet to go to Micronesian Gap and I want it to focus only on Hawaii Ridge, but I can't find any way to delete the Micronesian Gap order and every time i hold the fleet and give it an order again Micronesian Gap is always still there. The fleet subsequently completely ignored a naval invasion in Hawaii and sailed to Micronesian Gap.
i always post everything here on the forums, so people can easily acess it and eventually place on the wiki ^^.
In that guide i will also post the link to other guides i made. And later place in my signature.
something I'm having trouble with is I don't understand how to delete naval orders. Like this example here, I don't want the fleet to go to Micronesian Gap and I want it to focus only on Hawaii Ridge, but I can't find any way to delete the Micronesian Gap order and every time i hold the fleet and give it an order again Micronesian Gap is always still there. The fleet subsequently completely ignored a naval invasion in Hawaii and sailed to Micronesian Gap.
Shift + Right click. Read the help bar
.
Dug around the defines and found :
SHIP_TO_FLEET_ANTI_AIR_RATIO = 0.2, -- total sum of fleet's anti air will be multiplied with this ratio and added to calculations anti-air of individual ships while air damage reduction
ANTI_AIR_POW_ON_INCOMING_AIR_DAMAGE = 0.2, -- received air damage is calculated using following: 1 - ( (ship_anti_air + fleet_anti_air * SHIP_TO_FLEET_ANTI_AIR_RATIO )^ANTI_AIR_POW_ON_INCOMING_AIR_DAMAGE ) * ANTI_AIR_MULT_ON_INCOMING_AIR_DAMAGE
ANTI_AIR_MULT_ON_INCOMING_AIR_DAMAGE = 0.15,
MAX_ANTI_AIR_REDUCTION_EFFECT_ON_INCOMING_AIR_DAMAGE = 0.5, -- damage reduction for incoming air attacks is clamped to this value at maximum.
Lets try and put in some numbers
This will always be the same:
Received air damage = 1 - ( (ship_anti_air + fleet_anti_air * 0.2 )^0.2 ) * 0.15
or if we remove the "1 - " we can just get the damage reduction
#1 Scenario: A fleet of 10 ships with AA value of 1 each
( (1 + 10 * 0.2 )^0.2 ) * 0.15 = 0.187 or 18.7% damage reduction due to AA to each ship(since they all have the same AA value)
#2 Scenario: A fleet of 20 ships with AA value of 5 each
( (5 + 100 * 0.2 )^0.2 ) * 0.15 = 0.286 or 28.6% damage reduction due to AA to each ship(since they all have the same AA value)
To simplify we can chart how much fleet AA you would need to get certain air damage reduction for each ship guaranteed:
It's on a logarithmic scale so low levels of AA will see high damage reduction gain but then it's diminishing returns.
Example:
Initial AA->New AA = Initial reduction->New reduction (Total gain)
0->1 = 0%->~11% (+~11%)
1->5 = ~11%->15% (+~4%)
5->15 = 15%->~18.7 (+3.7%)
15->50 = ~18.7->~23.8% (+5.1%)
50->200 = ~23.8%->~31.4% (+7.6%)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13eNEVV7A9hwUhy9_2fvIXJKqYzwBZS2p_g1bl1SRyhU/edit?usp=sharing
edit: for more accurate values on a single ship, just multiply the ship's AA value by 5 and add it to the fleet's AA value.
this kind of post needs to go on the wiki so its not simply lost in the shuffle!
something I'm having trouble with is I don't understand how to delete naval orders. Like this example here, I don't want the fleet to go to Micronesian Gap and I want it to focus only on Hawaii Ridge, but I can't find any way to delete the Micronesian Gap order and every time i hold the fleet and give it an order again Micronesian Gap is always still there. The fleet subsequently completely ignored a naval invasion in Hawaii and sailed to Micronesian Gap.
Per the tooltip in the bottom right of your pic, it says you shift+right_click to remove a region. Have you tried that or you saying its bugged?
Is this formula actual? So heavy guns have less accuracy then light on every kind of targets? If we want compare heavy and light gamage we should accuracy heavy on 0,6 and torpedoes on 0.166*0.25=0.417?
I can't say for sure exactly how it work but this is what the defines say. Since we no longer have evasion as a value this is how the to hit is calculated.
This means that a light weapon who hit a BB with visibility 30 will hit every time (bar no other modifications) and a heavy weapon hit on roughly 60% and a Torpedo hit on 17% chance. On a destroyer with visibility 10 a light weapon have a 33% chance to hit while a heavy weapon have a 20% to hit and a Torpedo only have 5.5% chance to hit.
We should also consider that light and heavy weapons shoot once every hour while torpedoes only fire once every four hours.
So. Every point below the limit gives a x% to hit chance?
Remember there is a minimum of 5% chance to hit in the defines. So it can´t go lower than that.
thats is likely the main advantage of BC´s as they have 28 surface visibility vs 30 of BB´s. (no turret spam)
Remember there is a minimum of 5% chance to hit in the defines. So it can´t go lower than that.
thats is likely the main advantage of BC´s as they have 28 surface visibility vs 30 of BB´s. (no turret spam)