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VoidStalker

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New forum member, just saying hello in the new year, and asking for some advice.

I don't currently have any games from Pdox on any of my working computers, but was wondering about the space 4x game Stellaris. I was trying to find out what all content there was for this game, and maybe get some advice. Upon looking into it, my information seems to indicate that the base game is like $40, but there are also 3 expansions, something like $20 each, and then there are also like 6 DLC items, and these run anywhere from $7.00 to $10.00, so the game could end up being out of my budget if I needed to grab everything available to have a good gaming experience.

My needs are for some near term solo play, preferably offline while I learn how to play, and then to teach a friend how to play and see if it is something that would interest them. Would just the basic game be good for this? Or would I really need to buy all the other items as well?

My friend gave a good review for something that was called "Shadow of the tomb raider", which has very good graphics, but it is a FPS game. My own preferences are for games like MoO2, where the graphics are very old and bad, but the content (especially the tactical space combat) is outstanding! Is Stellaris going to have something for both my friend and I? And will just the starter game be enough for that? I'm not in the market at this time for spending $100 on a new computer game, let alone $150 unless it will provide the level of fun I have enjoyed with HoI2 and MoO2.

Can anyone give me a breakdown on what all the different products bring to the Stellaris table? I would have just asked this question over in the Stellaris forum, but, IIUC, I needed to have already purchased the game to post there?

So, any thoughts folks on what to buy now and what to hold off on?

###########################################################################################################################
###### October 3rd AAR post ######
###########################################################################################################################

The game initial setup:
In Stellaris, the game starts off with the players already having built a small fleet of warships, and augmenting that tiny combatant force are a single construction ship and a single science ship, the only thing missing is a colony ship. The thing is, any spacefaring civilization is going to have built many, many, many more ships than this, considering how Earth civilization has built probes, satellites, and shuttles, there should be a great many 'ships, bases, satellites and infrastructure' in existence at game start. So how do I write my stories, reflecting batter what a spacefaring civilization would have to have had, before the starting setup in Stellaris?


The ships:
For a not totally unrealistic look at how the game start up is, lets say that there are two types of ships in Stellaris, the ones we build and interact with, called 'Starships' and the ones we don't build nor interact with, but are rather understood to be abstracted and existing, but not present in-game. The in-game starships would have to be something special, as their missions are going to take them away from friendly shipyards and naval bases for years (or even decades) at a time, and this in turn means that they would have to be all but self sufficient in terms of equipment and supplies, as well as the ability to harvest some local materials for replenishment of parts and food, air, and water and whatnot. This gives a perfect excuse to make the case for having just a handful of ships capable of undertaking these missions, as their sheer size and complexity would preclude their construction in great numbers before the need for them exists, in the days before hyperlanes were discovered. So, for story writing purposes, there should be assumed to be thousands >>> to hundreds of thousands of smaller, cheaper ships that swarm about in the home system, but all within easy reach of other ships and bases and installations of all kinds, so that they don't need to have all the self-sufficiency requirements of a full on starship.

In my previous writings, I had this in the back of my mind, but it was only upon seeing what I had actually written last week that I realized that I needed to make much more of a point about this issue, as it is a critical element of my story, so I'll probably start writing a great deal about the shipyards, and the ships themselves in a setting up the back ground for my stories kind of thing.


The bases:
In Stellaris, the only place that bases can be built (talking about armed orbital platforms here) is in the center of a solar system. This is a problem, as there is no good reason that a planet couldn't have a defensive base built in orbit around it, and likewise the all important hyperlane exits should have the ability to have bases built nearby to enforce sovereignty



The resources:


The Populations:


The scale:


The combat:
 
Last edited:

stnylan

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You can get a good idea of what each contains by looking at the Wiki page for each item.

The basic game is a fine experience all by itself. The various pieces of dlc add depth and more options. To some extent therefore it depends on what interests you. That said, here are my own feelings.

The one expansion I would myself strongly suggest getting at the start is Utopia, which for me the one that the game would feel most incomplete without. It also introduces the Hive Mind style of government.

After that Leviathan Story Pack. Makes the galaxy more interesting. In particular iirc the War in Heaven is tied to it.
After that Distant Stars Story Pack, for much the same reasoning. Most noticeable for the L-Cluster.

After that Apocalypse. A more military focused expansion, and if war is especially what interests you it might be placed above or between Leviathans and Distant Stars

Both Megacorp and Synthetic Dawn introduce new government types (Corporate and Machine Empire respectively). If you wish to try out either of those then obviously you would need the requisite piece of dlc. Personally though I would suggest playing through some "normal" games before experimenting with the other government types, but ymmv. If just wishing to "fill-out" I would go to Megacorp over Synthetic Dawn due to more general features.

The two species packs are essentially cosmetic DLC, and whilst "nice" are non-essential.

One should remember that Paradox update the base game regularly with each new piece of DLC. Looking at the wiki pages will show that. That means if you play the base game of Stellaris now you are still playing on 2.2.2, with all the many changes introduced to the game since release. Therefore if you just acquire the base game you are not buying the game as it was at release. Indeed Stellaris has had several quite revolutionary iterations since it was released, and I would not be surprised if it didn't have several more in due course.
 

EU3NOOB

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For full disclosure the advantage of PDS's current DLC policy is that even if you don't buy the Docs you still get all the free patches. Also when you play multiplayer you get access to all the DLC that the host has but you don't.
 

VoidStalker

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You can get a good idea of what each contains by looking at the Wiki page for each item.

The basic game is a fine experience all by itself. The various pieces of dlc add depth and more options. To some extent therefore it depends on what interests you. That said, here are my own feelings.

The one expansion I would myself strongly suggest getting at the start is Utopia, which for me the one that the game would feel most incomplete without. It also introduces the Hive Mind style of government.

After that Leviathan Story Pack. Makes the galaxy more interesting. In particular iirc the War in Heaven is tied to it.
After that Distant Stars Story Pack, for much the same reasoning. Most noticeable for the L-Cluster.

After that Apocalypse. A more military focused expansion, and if war is especially what interests you it might be placed above or between Leviathans and Distant Stars

Both Megacorp and Synthetic Dawn introduce new government types (Corporate and Machine Empire respectively). If you wish to try out either of those then obviously you would need the requisite piece of dlc. Personally though I would suggest playing through some "normal" games before experimenting with the other government types, but ymmv. If just wishing to "fill-out" I would go to Megacorp over Synthetic Dawn due to more general features.

The two species packs are essentially cosmetic DLC, and whilst "nice" are non-essential.

One should remember that Paradox update the base game regularly with each new piece of DLC. Looking at the wiki pages will show that. That means if you play the base game of Stellaris now you are still playing on 2.2.2, with all the many changes introduced to the game since release. Therefore if you just acquire the base game you are not buying the game as it was at release. Indeed Stellaris has had several quite revolutionary iterations since it was released, and I would not be surprised if it didn't have several more in due course.
Thanks for the information!

Back in the day, when I still had a working windows XP computer, I enjoyed a lot of HoI2, with Doomsday & Armageddon, and I recall having great fun, but also much confusion, when I asked advice and found that it was out of date due to different patches and such, and looking at the WiKi, got the warnings about the page is current to 2.0, but now I would be playing 2.2.2?

How does the downloading and installing work currently? I don't want to have to update my games if I don't want to, so can I have a multi install directory, where I can have all the iterations that I end up with? My murky mind seems to recall doing that with HoI2, but it was kind of a pain in the butt, so is there any type of built in feature that allows a customer to set this up within the software nowadays? Or is patching/updating forced like with Blizzard games (which I hate --- the forced patching mind you, not the games themselves).

From the text I just got, my friend is going to wait till Stellaris comes out for Xbox. Can Xbox players play with PC players? If not, then there would be no reason for me to wait buying the basic game and start learning, as we wouldn't ever be able to play together anyway.

For full disclosure the advantage of PDS's current DLC policy is that even if you don't buy the Docs you still get all the free patches. Also when you play multiplayer you get access to all the DLC that the host has but you don't.
Nice, so if you have a group of friends, only one of you need have all the extras, and everyone else can try them out, for free, when joining the updated dudes games? Also, is it possible to pick and choose which addons/expansions to use on a particular game, or is this something that requires the player to manually setup multiple installs, and manage it that way?

Thanks folks, I think I may just grab the basic game right now, and start learning...

############################################################################################################################################################# Hidden from public view, a place to work on current posts ############################### #############################################################################################################################

9-27-2021

For my WarMongerian AAR.

The headman of the Imperial Senate, Carlos Vidia, took his place at the podium, and surveyed the crowded seats surrounding the central floor of the chamber. Waiting for silence to descend so that all could hear his words on this auspicious occasion, he began without preamble, "The Imperial Senate, in session on this day of January 1st, in the year 2200 of the modern age, has received his august Imperial Majesty's approval of the plan put forward over a year ago in bill 134-EX-596, the "Exploration & Expansion Act".

"As you all know, this bill was put forward after our esteemed brethren over at the Imperial Academy of Astronomy, together with the folks over in the Survey & Exploration Command department, concluded emplacements of our central systems sensor platforms and satellite constellations throughout the trinary Craxis solar system" "This was a decades long process, involving many thousands of personnel, serving in hundreds of ships, but was eventually concluded successfully in the recent past, and began collecting the data that led to the discovery of the gravitational anomalies that exist between star systems, now known as 'hyperlanes' in common parlance".

Pausing to reflect upon his thoughts, he continued "It was realized quite early on that if travel were even to be possible between systems, that the voyages would not be a matter of a few quick trips of a handful of months, but rather measured in years, and that this would mean that no existing ships built or building at that time would be capable of making such journeys. To that end, the Imperial Navy was tasked with coming up with designs for ships far vaster and more costly than all existing ships, that would be truly named 'Star-Ships', as they would need to carry all the supplies needed to sustain both ship and crew, on their extended deployments among the far flung stars of our galaxy, and because of these severe mission requirements, these 'star-ships' easily out mass regular 'space-ships' by 100:1."

Authors note: I needed to at least partially address the in game issues, of a space faring species having just 5 ships at game start, despite being in space for at least several decades if not centauries, rather than the thousands or hundreds of thousands that would far more likely have to have been built to even begin harvesting a solar systems resources. Since I cannot have the 'space-ships' in game (and to be honest, I really wouldn't want to have to have them), I just get around that point by making the 'star-ships' far bigger and more expensive, and an easy mechanism is to require them to be all but self sufficient, thus explaining away any need to return to base for maintenance, refits, or repairs & resupply for years at a time.

"That being the case, a complete retooling and rethinking of our construction process was needed, before we could even begin to build such ships as these missions would require, but once that was done, we now have the ability to rapidly construct these immense and extraordinarily expensive ships. To date, we now possess a trio of huge combatant ships, a specialized science ship, as well as a construction ship." "We now have our orders..."

A look at the stellar neighborhood of the WarMongerian civilization:
Initial hyperlanes base.jpg

With the science at their disposal, the current (game start) knowledge of the WarMongerian civ's nearby hyperlane connections. The top priority is the six star systems that link directly to Warriors Cradle, so by law, all 6 of these systems MUST be fully surveyed, and because we know that our home is surrounded by a ring of 9 interconnected stars, and that this ring has just two points that lead outward, the full survey effort will begin with the first directly connected system to the SW, and proceed in a counter clockwise fashion, so that the survey fleet will end up in the far leftmost system of the ring. The six direct connected:
work in progress 6 direct connect.jpg

and with the other three stars in the 'ring':
plus second tier start.jpg

This displays what the guys want to make their own, and should such be achieved, the WarMongerian civ will have 10 star systems under their control, and just two points that need to be defended.
the outgoing.jpg

That is the initial desired setup, for the first week's goals, without thought to what are in the systems in question. For further expansion:
the distant outbound.jpg

Let me know how these images work for folks. I like the shapes/colors, and want to use such things from time to time during the AAR. I was surprised to note that, at game startup, without using the {Intel} command, I could find the black holes and nebulas right off the back, as well as noting some systems that seem to have a ring around them on the galaxy map.
 
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stnylan

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Thanks for the information!
You're welcome

Back in the day, when I still had a working windows XP computer, I enjoyed a lot of HoI2, with Doomsday & Armageddon, and I recall having great fun, but also much confusion, when I asked advice and found that it was out of date due to different patches and such, and looking at the WiKi, got the warnings about the page is current to 2.0, but now I would be playing 2.2.2?
The wiki is largely updated by volunteers, so the versioning is just a heads-up really as to when that particular page was last updated.

How does the downloading and installing work currently? I don't want to have to update my games if I don't want to, so can I have a multi install directory, where I can have all the iterations that I end up with? My murky mind seems to recall doing that with HoI2, but it was kind of a pain in the butt, so is there any type of built in feature that allows a customer to set this up within the software nowadays? Or is patching/updating forced like with Blizzard games (which I hate --- the forced patching mind you, not the games themselves).
As for installing, if you get it through Steam then Steam will force updates on you. However, if you are on a version you like you can roll back to an earlier game version via the beta feature (there are threads on how to do this in each game forum).

From the text I just got, my friend is going to wait till Stellaris comes out for Xbox. Can Xbox players play with PC players? If not, then there would be no reason for me to wait buying the basic game and start learning, as we wouldn't ever be able to play together anyway.
As to playing with Console players, I imagine not because afaik the consolers are getting an earlier version of the game, which in time will be patched up to where the pc game is.

Nice, so if you have a group of friends, only one of you need have all the extras, and everyone else can try them out, for free, when joining the updated dudes games? Also, is it possible to pick and choose which addons/expansions to use on a particular game, or is this something that requires the player to manually setup multiple installs, and manage it that way?
As for multi-player, that is quite right. An example from another Paradox game - I sometimes play CK2 with a friend. My friend has no CK2 DLC. I have all the DLC. But when we play together and I host my friend gets access to all the DLC features.

From the launcher you can indeed also select which DLC to have active for that particular game session (of course, if you started a game with a set of DLC you should make sure you have the same set of DLC active). When you begin a new game you also have a set of game rules that allow you to modify some elements about the game. Stellaris' aren't as extensive as CK2, but do a pretty good job of allowing you to adjust the game to personal taste.

Thanks folks, I think I may just grab the basic game right now, and start learning...
Sounds like a plan. When you do so remember to register the game so you have access to the Stellaris forums. :D
 

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Most of PDX's contents except the most recent ones occasionally go on sale so I recommend you put them on your Steam wishlist and wait for a bargain.
 

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Personally I can't recommend Stellaris to new players in it's current state (poor performance for many, worse lategame performance, braindead AI, end game crisis not working etc). As the poster above I also recommend waiting for a sale and hopefully by then Paradox has fixed most of the glaring issues 2.2 patch caused.