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New map: Poland and Lithuania

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Then why don't you start, as MKJ has already published the psd file?
 
Mad King James said:
Well don't hold your breath
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I don't know what you have in your mind because my english is rather poor and english idioms are a sealed book to me :) (my polish-english dictionary have only 50k words :))... Just in case it's a encouragement to work and wish me success I thank you :)
 
You have my full support Tr and i'm with you, lets hope for the best ;)

Grzegorz :)
 
First thing: move all you posts on the topic from the Scandinavia thread here.
Second thing: Keep in mind that this is to 98% the map AGCEEP 2.0 will be released with. We are pretty deaf to all ideas right now, both good and bad.

Try to focus on the issues at hand, changes to the map are very very likely to be included in the first release. It will all be for later releases.
For this thread, just discuss provinces numbered in white! The rest will be in other threads. Maps without the chicken scratch will replace this one as soon as I get my hands on it.

We need help with
  • Make conversion list for old ID - new ID(s). This will be used for converting knownprovinces lists in 300 country files. They should be configured like this to be readble to Aegnor's program:

    One old to one new conversion:
    Code: 
    oldID1-newID1 #Old name
oldID2-newID2 #Old name
oldID3-newID3 #Old name
etc..
    One old to multiple new conversion:
    Code: 
    oldID1-newID1 #Old name
oldID1-newID2 
oldID1-newID3 
etc..
    One old can convert into several new ones, but never the opposite! It's no exact science as it's only for this sole purpose.
    If there is no new one that fits, as if it's been covered in PTI, write 0.
  • Make the province.csv entries.
  • make the 1419.inc entries. (The knownprovince need not be changed now.)
As default provinces coming from a split old EU2 province in the new map get the combined tax values of the old one +1. Countries need to invest some to get the value out of the provinces, and this addition is an easy way to make up for it. There's already too much manpower on the map, and armies are several times the historical ones, and require no investment, so I don't think manpower should be affected.

Example: Old province A (tax 7) is divided in X and Y. Their combined tax values on the new map is 9.

 
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Administrative division of Poland and Lithuania shortly after 1600 overall map (not best quality) plus 3 higher resolution; all about 1MB if you need smaller size tell me; jedysan is too big, so Braclav might be extended or Krementjug should be reintroduced

my comments regarding provinces in post 548

proposal of slight modifications of map, I guess that Vitebsk will not be introduced any soon (if at all) :)


Chelmno is on right bank of Vistula and is deducted from original Prussia
289 290 - 535 536 542 550 #Memel Prussia

some changes may be introduced when Russia will be revealed
division (more or less)
280-601 #Welikia(Velkije Luki)
281-556 #Polotsk
284 288-543 549 548 #Belarus Lithuania
287 Mozyr (Mohylev) is lost, should appear (together with Vitebsk) as province between Smolensk and Polotsk (southern and eastern part od Polotsk plus western part of Smolensk); right now I decided split it between Belarus and Navagradak
285-602 #Smolensk
291-537 538 #Masovia
292-540 541 Podlasia
293-544 545 #Volynia
298 299-528 529 539 #Galizien Krakow
300 303-463 531 532 #Poznan Wielkopolska
301-533 534 #Danzig
314-464 530 #Silesia
294 295 461 - 526 546 547 610 #Ukraine Chernigov Poltava
296-527 525 #Podolia (plus western part of Krementjug if missing)
450-604 # Belgorod or at least bigger part of it

296-524 #Jedysan
Krementjug is missing (presumably inside Jedysan) but it should not happen
Edit: after seeing MKJ map I can confirm that Krementjug is missing: it should be formed from north-eastern half of Jedisan, or that part of Jedisan should be added to Braclav

I hope nothing is missing :)

Code: 
Teutonic Order: 533 534 535 536 plus others: see scandinavian thread [URL=http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5829806&postcount=766]here[/URL] 
Masovia: 537 538 cores+541
Poland: 463 528 529 531 532 539 540 cores+527 530? 533 536 537 538 541 546; 534 in 1454
Lithuania: 525 526 527 541 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 556 557? 601 602 604 610 +Kursk, Briansk and Zaporozhia on east;  cores+524 (IMO, lost around 1494)
Moldavia: 556 + other provinces south of Bessarabia
Duchy of Opole: 530, vassal of Bohemia (Piast dynasty till 1532, later Hohenzollern till 1552); if no tag will be available than to Bohemia
Golden Horde (or Lithuania): 524
When I see map of Russia and northern coast of the Black See I may modify proposal

and very first draft of province.csv proposal, feel free to correct me :) I guess that tax and MP will require rebalancing from provinces which were not split into splitted ones

there is culture related problem for Chelmno, It was Polish province but Polish nobility there were loyal to Teutonic Order until Poland took over. lame solution could be to start with german and change to polish as soon as Poland recovers province. (Chelmno was listed in scandinavian my map thread)

Code: 
464  
Province: Silesia
City: Vratislavia
Income: 6
Manpower: 5
Culture: german
Religion: protestant 
Goods: clo #clothes

530
Province: Opole
City: Opole
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: polish
Religion: protestant
Goods: mineral

Code: 
533
Province: Pomerelia
City: Danzig
Income: 8
Manpower: 2
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic
Goods: Grain

534
Province: Warmia
City: Lidzbark # capital of bishopric; Elblag/Elbing was bigger city
Income: 6
Manpower: 2
Culture: baltic
Religion: catholic
Goods: clo #clothes

Code: 
537
Province: Masovia
City: Plock
Income: 5
Manpower: 3
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic
Goods: Grain

538
Province: Warsaw #Warszawa
City: Warszawa
Income: 7
Manpower: 3
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic
Goods: clo #clothes

Code: 
463  
Province: Wielkopolska #Greater Poland
City: Poznan
Income: 8
Manpower: 3
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic 
Goods: clo #clothes

529
Province: Malopolska #or Lesser Poland
City: Kraków
Income: 9
Manpower: 5
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic
Goods: salt 

531
Province: Kujawy  #Kuyavia
City: Inowroclaw # or Brzesc-Kujawski 
Income: 7
Manpower: 2
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic 
Goods: Grain

532
Province: Sieradz
City: Sieradz
Income: 8
Manpower: 3
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic 
Goods: metal

539 
Province: Sandomierz
City: Sandomierz
Income: 7
Manpower: 3
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic
Goods: metal

540
Province: Lublin
City: Lublin
Income: 4
Manpower: 3
Culture: polish
Religion: catholic
Goods: Grain

528 
Province: Lwow
City: Lwów
Income: 8
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox 
Goods: Salt

527
Province: Podolia
City: Kamieniec-Podolski
Income: 8
Manpower: 3
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

Code: 
541
Province: Podlasia
City: Drohiczyn
Income: 5
Manpower: 3
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: catholic
Goods: Grain

525
Province: Braclav
City: Braclav
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

526
Province: Kiev
City: Kiev
Income: 7
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

546
Province: Volynia
City: Luck
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: NAVS 

547
Province: Ukraine
City: Zhytomir
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

604
Province: Chernigov
City: Chernigov
Income: 5
Manpower: 3  
Culture: russian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

610
Province: Pereyaslavl/Pereiaslav
City: Pereiaslav 
Income: 4
Manpower: 3
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

543
Province: Troki
City: Troki
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: baltic 
Religion: catholic 
Goods: clo #clothes

544
Province: Navagradak/Navahradak
City: Navagradak/Navahradak
Income: 6
Manpower: 5
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain 

545
Province: Polesia
City: Brest
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: NAVS 

548 
Province: Minsk
City: Minsk
Income: 5
Manpower: 4
Culture: ruthenian 
Religion: orthodox 
Goods: Grain

549
Province: Lithuania
City: Vilnius
Income: 9
Manpower: 6
Culture: baltic 
Religion: catholic 
Goods: Grain

556
Province: Polotsk
City: Polotsk #or Vitebsk as on vanilla map
Income: 5
Manpower: 3
Culture: ruthenian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: NAVS

601
Province: Velikiye Luki 
City: Velikiye Luki
Income: 5 
Manpower: 4
Culture: russian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

602
Province: Smolensk
City: Smolensk
Income: 6
Manpower: 4
Culture: russian
Religion: orthodox
Goods: Grain

tax and MP of western part of Krementjug to be assinged somewhere
 
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placeholder2
 
Norrefeldt said:
First thing: move all you posts on the topic from the Scandinavia thread here.
Click to expand...

It is possible to move post or just copy-paste by hand?

RE: similar names (Pomerania vs Pomerelia):
look at these names: Podlasia, Polesia, Podolia; can you tell me which is where :D
 
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Norrefeldt said:
Only mods can move. So it's copy paste. ;)
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It sucks. Look at my edit in previous post (about similar names)
 
From Scandinavian thread

Norrefeldt said:
zdlugasz and rybka: We wont rearrange the Prussian provinces for the first version. I find the name Prussia good for it incorporates the core of what later became Prussia.
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For future considerations then.
All what would be required to cut (narrow) strip along Warmia border and add it to Masuria.

Regarding naming conventions: It is not in Scandinavia, however if I start earlier I have better chance:

- Hinterpommern is German name (province was incorporated into Brandenburg in 1648, before 30YW local population was dominating). Noncontroversial English name is Pomerania


Edit: during XIVth and XVth century Dukes of Pomerania were beating about Poland, Danmark, Teutonic Order and Emperor; Erik was also king of Danmark, Boguslaw VIII submitted to Polish king in 1410, Kazimierz IV was heir to Polish throne but was forced (by pro-Lithuanian party) to resign claims, sometimes were allied with Poland against TO sometimes with Teutonic Order against Poland.
Only in XVIth century they finally recognized Emperor as their overlord.


EDIT:
map of Pomerania
 
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Moved from Scandinavian thread

Norrefeldt said:
So far we only have a semi-convention on province names, which in this case probably means that it's called by the German Hinterpommern instead of Pomerania, very close to Pomerelia.
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You know, Pomerelia is also Latinized German (Pomerellen) name. So you do not convince me at all. I know that German historians used German names and that is why German names appear in works of English and other historians (even at the beginning of second half of XXth century)
But the fact remains that you decided to keep German version of name for both provinces.

What is shown as Pomerelia on map is called Eastern Pomerania, or Gdansk Pomerania and in past was also called Royal Prussia (in Poland).
EDIT: Eastern and Gdansk Pomerania are geographical terms, administrative term was (Voivodship) pomorskie since 1466

Livonia wasn't historically divided enough under this period to warrant an extra province. It was almost always under the same rule. In any case, this wont happen now. Don't hope for ANY changes beyond erraneous names.
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If you want to remove unnecessary province you could consider removal of Oesel. Just because Danmark hold it for 85 years does not mean it must be represented in game. AFAIK there is nothing special anout Isle, no extra riches, etc.

And regarding Polotsk, Belarus etc borders are very well defined if we are talking about XVIth - XVIIIth century (I am not sure about XVth). Lithuania had clear administrative division. Province Belarus was in fact called Voivodship of Minsk, but boders were clearly defined.
 
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