New map: Poland and Lithuania

[Herr Doctor]

Well won't they be chagrined when they are 10 provinces over the regional overflow limit

Thank you that you so highly value others’ work… :/

In fact I doubt that there are many people here, which could make really clear normal historical critique to this map except such thing like “too many provinces”…

 

[Mad King James]

Well I'm sorry, but now you have to think about the things I've always had to think about, like regional overflow limits. I had REASONS for wanting to limit the number of provinces in the area, it wasn't some bizarre personal vendetta.

 

[almoravid]

I guess these Polishmen will be swift to kill african and american provinces, which are of very little importance in their view of this world. Which of course doesn't mean I'll play their map rather then yours after all, since too many polish provinces doesn't look good either. The best map will prevail, whoever may make it.

 

[Garbon]

I guess these Polishmen will be swift to kill african and american provinces, which are of very little importance in their view of this world. Which of course doesn't mean I'll play their map rather then yours after all, since too many polish provinces doesn't look good either. The best map will prevail, whoever may make it.

Won't help them. Those province aren't in the same region.

 

[unmerged(29041)]

In fact I doubt that there are many people here, which could make really clear normal historical critique to this map except such thing like “too many provinces”…

such thing like “too many provinces”… is what will make all maps, MKJ and Polish included, unplayable.

While the number of provinces you can request in a war will remain the same, the amount of BB you gain for conquering provinces will remain the same, the number of colonies you can plant will remain the same, the number of provinces you can convert will remain the same, and the time to do it all will remain the same, the new maps will have double amount of provinces or more. So people will be able to achieve half, and the AI probably much less than half. I don't even want to think what will happen to AGCEEP if moved to one of these maps. People will try once or perhaps twice and will go back to the default map "en masse".

The moddable maps offered the opportunity to fix some serious mistakes and perhaps increase the number of provinces up to 10%. A 50% increase is a serious overkill, as time will demonstrate. Not that I want to discourage you. The maps look beautiful.

 

[Mad King James]

such thing like “too many provinces”… is what will make all maps, MKJ and Polish included, unplayable.

While the number of provinces you can request in a war will remain the same, the amount of BB you gain for conquering provinces will remain the same, the number of colonies you can plant will remain the same, the number of provinces you can convert will remain the same, and the time to do it all will remain the same, the new maps will have double amount of provinces or more. So people will be able to achieve half, and the AI probably much less than half. I don't even want to think what will happen to AGCEEP if moved to one of these maps. People will try once or perhaps twice and will go back to the default map "en masse".

The moddable maps offered the opportunity to fix some serious mistakes and perhaps increase the number of provinces up to 10%. A 50% increase is a serious overkill, as time will demonstrate. Not that I want to discourage you. The maps look beautiful.

I have kept this fact in my mind, actually. In the cases where I do add extra provinces is precisely because I want this effect, not in spite of it. For instance, conquering the Holy Roman Empire should be a very difficult feat, and grabbing even a chunk of it should make you a badboy, as it did in history. On the Vanilla map it is not only possible, but easy, to conquer all of Germany in a century and not go over the badboy limit.

 

[unmerged(29318)]

I guess these Polishmen will be swift to kill african and american provinces, which are of very little importance in their view of this world. Which of course doesn't mean I'll play their map rather then yours after all, since too many polish provinces doesn't look good either. The best map will prevail, whoever may make it.

Won't help them. Those province aren't in the same region.

They must consider about france and german region idgrid and balkan area to make their map playable.
just remember idgrid border overlapping. polish has bordered with idgrid region that had many provinces. That why very easy to add new provinces in Russia rather than in polish and german area.

 

[Herr Doctor]

Well I'm sorry, but now you have to think about the things I've always had to think about, like regional overflow limits. I had REASONS for wanting to limit the number of provinces in the area, it wasn't some bizarre personal vendetta.

I do not mean that those proposed number of the provinces is unquestionable, but at last all borders here are historical and reasonable (coz we spent about three months discussing this map), and you at last could take it into attention. I do not know how to make them look more natural and historically proved.

 

[Herr Doctor]

At last you can unite 1709 and 1710, 1711 and 1712, 1716 and 1715, 1720 and 1719, 1702 and 1703, 1744 and 1757, 1731 and 1732. But the main spirit of the map is better through the historical accuracy reason than this, which you worked out.

 

[unmerged(13006)]

They must consider about france and german region idgrid and balkan area to make their map playable.
just remember idgrid border overlapping. polish has bordered with idgrid region that had many provinces. That why very easy to add new provinces in Russia rather than in polish and german area.

Sure thing, and MKJ went in this MORE simple way. Then he draw a lot of quite weird provinces in Russian part of map - fighting with common sense and official Provincial Division of Russian Empire of XVII-XX centuries.

I wonder why his map is providing less provinces to community which like it in their way, but presenting much more provinces then desirable to other part of community. We used to ask him to give us LESS number of provinces then he proposed on his chart.
If MKJ has impression like Pskow region is more important/larger then region around Warsaw - I'm sure he has rather weird opinion about real land distribution.

Dixi.

 

[Garbon]

I wonder why his map is providing less provinces to community which like it in their way, but presenting much more provinces then desirable to other part of community. We used to ask him to give us LESS number of provinces then he proposed on his chart.
If MKJ has impression like Pskow region is more important/larger then region around Warsaw - I'm sure he has rather weird opinion about real land distribution.

Dixi.

Did you not read agung pasha's post?

Its easier to add provinces to Russia as apparently its in a different section of the grid than poland. The section of the grid that poland is in can't afford to have all those new provinces, where as the grid Russia is in, can.

 

[unmerged(13006)]

Did you not read agung pasha's post?

Its easier to add provinces to Russia as apparently its in a different section of the grid than poland. The section of the grid that poland is in can't afford to have all those new provinces, where as the grid Russia is in, can.

OK. According to your logic - if someone dropped his keys under some unlit lamp-post, he must go to some lit post and search these drop keys there, because this lampost is LIT and can provide some light, while unlit post can't provide it?

Excuse me for asking - what was method by gridiron definition. Why some countries received more space/empty sockets for provinces and other less. I've got an impression - like MKJ map is distorted anyway - real Muscovy (modern Moscow or XVI century Moskva principality - no difference) LARGER then all provinces in Benilux region plus Calais and Artois regions - extra. But in this presentation - Moscow region is comparable with Hainaut while in real life modern City of Moscow (not province of Moscow at all!) is 4 times larger then proposed Hainaut province.
In other words - if you start to change actual size of some provinces - why you try to speak some nonsense about some "gridiron" stuff? Move Polish Lithuanian lands in more eastern direction - give Polish community part of Russian quota of you precious "gridiron" and remove all weird things created by MKJ imagination in Russian part of map!
What sort of problem do you have? Poles asked you for some numbers for provinces extra, Russian community asked you to remove all weird things, created by MKJ and you start to speak me about "gridiron". Move border of "gridiron" - as simple as that.
Keep only modern Poland provinces in their part of gridiron and put all former Soviet-held provinces in Russian part of grid. Yep, my Soviet sentiments would be - quite happy by this Solomonic decision (especially by seeing all Baltic provinces in "Russian part of grid"! - come on boys, stop to be nasty, - your old, wrinkled foster mother would be happy to squeeze you in her almost forgotten steel maternal embrasses - again! ).
Just move all former Soviet lands in Europe to "Russian" part of your grid - then everybody would be happy .

Dixi

 

[Garbon]

OK. According to your logic - if someone dropped his keys under some unlit lamp-post, he must go to some lit post and search these drop keys there, because this lampost is LIT and can provide some light, while unlit post can't provide it?

I can't really say more as I haven't quite wrapped my head around this region grid bit. However, I don't think you can just simply move them about / without consequences.

And lastly, sir, your analogies have always just made my head hurt.

 

[Hallsten]

I can't really say more as I haven't quite wrapped my head around this region grid bit. However, I don't think you can just simply move them about / without consequences.

The grids are fixed, but you can move the map under the grid.
I think MKJ has done this so that central/western Europe is part of two grids to allow him to add more provs.

And lastly, sir, your analogies have always just made my head hurt.

 

[Garbon]

I'm sorry, but it needed to be said. I always get lost in his analogies and don't know whats being discussed anymore. o

 

[unmerged(13006)]

The grids are fixed, but you can move the map under the grid.
I think MKJ has done this so that central/western Europe is part of two grids to allow him to add more provs.

MKJ is used to stretch out his map in some quarter and squeeze it in some other parts.
If WHOLE Polish community has the same opinion - stretch their part of map for their Eastern provinces (Baltic, Byelorussian and Ukrainian lands with Bessarab) come into Russian part of grid. You can squeese eastern part of Russia as well for deleting all non-necessary/weird things created by MKJ.
Then whole dimension of map would be intact and both - Polish and Russian community would be happy.
Strange thing - somebody seeks slots for their provinces, while its close neighbor asks you to remove all un-necessary slots provided to him - but you start to be nasty. Weird attitude - isn't it?

 

[Sute]{h]

Well I don't recall MKJ being the first one to launch nasty comments... nor the one who used the most degrading comments.

 

[Mad King James]

I've wasted so much time on Poland, Lithuania and Russia that I'm not even interested in getting it "right" anymore. It's like a bad joke.

 

[almoravid]

To each his own. Other people wouldn't be interested in a map of France, perfectly understandable. The community will be getting your map in order, nothing wrong about that.

 

[Mad King James]

Their map doesn't fit, they expanded western poland so much to fit in all those tiny provinces that it stretches all the way to Denmark.