New map for multiplayer

[K'shar]

I've so far only looked at Mymap, it has been quite enjoyable but clearly needs substantial work.

Matters of Balance, resources, excess Cots, graphical glitches, cores, events, odd unit path choices (talking of ships here), and awfully generic tax and population lvls in 90% of the new provs (no doubt a time saver) etc.

Nonetheless, I was intending on running (time permitting) an MP with a new map setup in the not to distant future so good luck with your edits .

 

[unmerged(38752)]

Oh... my... fucking... God...

I've just been looking at Ryo's mod with Kasp's map.. IT LOOKS SO GREAT! I immediately typed in "columbus" and started looking at the map... been looking at it for 15 minutes now and still discovered new things.

I really can't wait to play a campaign with this one!

EDIT - Btw, as far as I can tell Ryo has fixed all events. Also, every province has a sensible tax/pop value.

 

[the_genius]

Well, if original WATK is awesome can't imagine an scenario well designed and modded for MP purposes.. I'm gonna try it soon

 

[K'shar]

Oh... my... fucking... God...

I've just been looking at Ryo's mod with Kasp's map.. IT LOOKS SO GREAT! I immediately typed in "columbus" and started looking at the map... been looking at it for 15 minutes now and still discovered new things.

I really can't wait to play a campaign with this one!

EDIT - Btw, as far as I can tell Ryo has fixed all events. Also, every province has a sensible tax/pop value.

yeah, looking at it to. Generally my issues with "Mymap" for MP have been addressed.

Likewise stoked .

edit: though in SP I still enjoy Mymap design more.

 

[unmerged(27108)]

So, who's gonna launch a new campaign?

 

[unmerged(7276)]

very promising stuff. Would like to see more focus on europe though with more playable countrys perhaps?

 

[HolisticGod]

FAL,

Actually, there's been a lot of dicussion about this over the last couple months on ICQ. 'bout time somebody started a thread.

Ryo also messaged me about his scenario. And I'll say the same thing I said to him-there are too few changes in Europe in both MyMap and Kasp's (although they do look much better and more authentic) to make it worth doing. They were made with an eye toward SP, not MP, else much of the investment would've been in Germany and Italy.

What we need is our own map project with an MP philosophy. I know absolutely about graphics and mapmaking and such, but I'm willing to learn if there are enough of us who are. And if at least couple know what they're doing.

All that said, I am going to start and GM an Asian game with MyMap (probably, haven't installed the other yet) when there's a cogent scenario I can work from or, alternatively, when I have the time to write my own scenario. The problem I have is simply one of time, but I do expect it'll start in the next month to three months.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Okay, I have played Ryo's mod for a while.

Let me start with saying that I am currently quite excited. It just feels very wonderful to play with an entire new map! Tons of new provinces, especially in the America's and Africa. Africa won't be colonised in a standard campaign. I bet.

There are some issues, but they have mostly to do with the scenario and not the map.
I noticed for example no natives in America/Africa, except inca's and aztecs. Also there were extremely low odds to place settlers in the caribbean (1% and such).
The events seem to fire up correctly.

Regarding Kasperus' map, it looks ready for playing. Only a few minor graphical errors spotted (trees in water and such ).
I am only a bit concerned with the lack of provinces for Spain...

But again: I am quite excited! It looks wonderful.

 

[unmerged(38752)]

Well, if it turns out a certain country (spain for example) has too little provinces, we can always boost it a bit by making those provinces more valuable.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

They were made with an eye toward SP, not MP, else much of the investment would've been in Germany and Italy.

True, I guess. However, Europe did get a good overhaul and I am not sure if just adding more provinces to Europe is good for mp. the changes to warfare and such would be extremely drastic.

All those new provinces in the ROTW do mean an entire new life for colonial competition.

What we need is our own map project with an MP philosophy. I know absolutely about graphics and mapmaking and such, but I'm willing to learn if there are enough of us who are. And if at least couple know what they're doing.

A specific MP-map would be best. But since doing such a thing would take a very long time, I rather would use the work that has been done so far and concentrate ourselves at the scenario's.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Well, if it turns out a certain country (spain for example) has too little provinces, we can always boost it a bit by making those provinces more valuable.

Yeah, I was more thinking about them being rapidly blitzed by France. But perhaps medium fortresses or something at start will do the trick...

 

[unmerged(38752)]

Yeah, I was more thinking about them being rapidly blitzed by France. But perhaps medium fortresses or something at start will do the trick...

Exactly

 

[HolisticGod]

FAL,

Has somebody done an exact count on how many provinces there are in each standard MP country now?

And frankly, colonial competition is meaningless. Always has been. It's the drastic changes to warfare that I was looking forward to.

The biggest reason to adopt one of these two maps, it seems to me, is to play an Asian game. And if Ryo really has done that much work, and I can see about leaders and events from Asia Universalis (Strategy Six Pack to replace my disk a while back), who's up for that? As a first go/beta test.

Off handedly, I would say:

Japan
Manchuria
Two countries in China (probably, but with so many new provinces elsewhere this bears discussion)
Dai Viet
The Mughal Empire
The Vij
Persia
Oman
Mataram

 

[K'shar]

Overall, central Europe has seen quite a work over (probably the most vital area) ... though Finnish wars may be a tad tiring to execute .

The increase in colonial oppurtunities and central euro provs will hopefully help two age old problems with the vanilla map. Sharp move increasing colonists by religion as well otherwise we'd see even less competition then vanilla.

 

[HolisticGod]

FAL,

Incidentally, if we start a Eurocentric test game (and if I understand correctly, with Ryo's mod and some quick edits, we could probably start in a week or two), I want the OE.

The Aegean-North Africa are the coolest thing about Europe on this map.

 

[Kasperus]

Well, since FAL pointed me to this thread, some comments:

1. The map is supposed to work correctly and be stable. I fixed most events actually, so if there are still issues I might have overlooked something - I'm only human and overworked . Might be that I forgot to include modified events for Russian claims in Asia or some fixes for less popular nations though, point is I'm not sure exactly anymore which changes I did in the end publish and which not (since it is an ongoing project). I do intend to post a small bugfix on some problems in the province.csv which can be irritating if you face them. I'm sure more testing might release some more. If someone will be willing to post the found errors in events I will be grateful though and can fix it 'officially', so FAL, thanks in advance

2. I cannot help you with or comment on Ryo's mod obviously, which I also first heard about through this thread and haven't checked out yet. He will probably have more experience with multiplayer scenarios than I do though, and as such my 'mod' itself was more aimed on the SP game and ai so...

3. I do think that Germany being more divided might be actually beneficial for the MP. In fact many changes done for this release were made after discussion with Bocaj who especially was emphasizing the mp-character of certain ways of setup. The aim was therefor for at least a part to make countries like Brandenburg, Saxony, Bavaria and Hannover more competative also in MP, also with possibility of more than 1 powerful German state in the end.

4. I did certainly not cut off so many seazones for that version as did MyMAP

5. ...and that export is certainly not crazy about adding zounds of provinces to Asia (yet )

6. In fact the general balance of vanilla is retained in Europe among the powers at least, other than the fact that for the benefit of the ai I made (or intended to make) especially OE, BRA and DEN stronger in the beginning than in vanilla. Per saldo about every greater power in Europe gained in 'full setting' about 2 provinces (so did for example Spain, one more than France in intended end-setting). Obviously I can only theoreticize about MP balance when making a map and testing it on ai though, so I might have be mistaken on various accounts, but in general I stll believe that European balance has been relatively speaking not very much affected by my changes since everyone gained some.

7. Austria (province) going protestant is WAD btw. Sesam atlas says it was so and sesam atlas is never wrong .

 

[unmerged(18425)]

I just tested in MP. Stable, no lag because of increased size (but it was a 2 player game).

More to come.

 

[unmerged(7276)]

A larger germany is the main thing in terms of europe mp. By itself this would have the following results.

Austria would under no situation be allowd to annex all of it. They would be a monster and everyone would know it.

Potential for more nations. More land nations in europe would be fantastic in my opinion. Just what this game needs to keep things fresh/less predictable. Imagine the HYW!!! More events for these nations wouldnt hurt but i guess that even more work that 'someone else' would have to do

more historical which nearly everyone likes

more potential for a mighty prussia that doesnt need to own 1/3 of germany to be historically great.

 

[Tonioz]

Italy in mountains, that will make them completely different, specially at earlier ages.
Artois at seacost even, i thought they are more inside.
Karelia province didn`t change to Pomoria (or can be Kem)
Terra Incognita between Sweden and Kola-Karelia and Sweden and Norway, cool
more province to european OE
Caribbean colonization is okay, probably FAL opened 1419, and get penalty for too early colonization.
Much more gold in Mexico (hey FAL Spain inflation ), two more gold mines in NA
No gold for Portugal Amazon river, two gold of SA moved to coastal. And more gold there too.
Much more gold in Timbuktu area, two news at coast too. Zimbabwe expanded, and gift to OE with Nubia gold.
Eufrat and Tigr rivers looks very good and attractive
Proper Russian provinces, which were ugly before
no UFA gold, Sibir has same 3 gold mines + near Manchu
Ternate islands are not uberrich, while Spain, Porto, England, France, Venice and Genoa aimed to find a seaway to them at late 14xx.
More Australia to colonize

 

[unmerged(38752)]

Nice analysis Tonio.