New Italian and German territorial claims

[unmerged(51143)]

I think that, even outside special events, Germany should anyway claims the following provinces: all the Suedetenland, all Austria, Kolding (Danish Schleswig), Danzig and all the Polish territories annexed to Poland after WW1, and Memel; after Anschluss, Germany should claims Trento too; maybe Germany could also claims German-speaking Swiss cantons, then the provinces of Bern and Zuerich.
Italy should claims all Tunisia, Malta, Corsica, Nice, Grenoble (Savoy), Chur (Italian Swiss canton like Ticino, other Italian-speaking people in the bordering cantons), Gibuti and British Somaliland; Italy should no more claims Mostar and Rijeka.
Remaining claims should be kept.

 

[Captain Frakas]

Given that territorial claims also have effects on production and on partisan activity, i'm not agree with you...

I think that only provinces with at least a strong ethnical/cultural minority of it's mother nation should be a core province.

 

[unmerged(21069)]

Given that territorial claims also have effects on production and on partisan activity, i'm not agree with you...

I think that only provinces with at least a strong ethnical/cultural minority of it's mother nation should be a core province.

ummm... I can't speak for the German side of it, but I can say that every Italian core he suggested there has a strong Italian ethnic presence (there were almost as many Italians in Tunisia as there were Frenchmen) except for the provinces in Somalia, but they have no partisan activity anyway and some somali nationalists at the time hoped Italy would unite all of Somalia so that it could then be liberated as a whole

 

[Zanza]

I think that, even outside special events, Germany should anyway claims the following provinces: all the Suedetenland, all Austria, Kolding (Danish Schleswig), Danzig and all the Polish territories annexed to Poland after WW1, and Memel; after Anschluss, Germany should claims Trento too; maybe Germany could also claims German-speaking Swiss cantons, then the provinces of Bern and Zuerich.

Eh, why? I can see Sudetenland, Austria, Polish territories and Danzig, but those aren't in for game balance purposes. But saying that Germany should claim Trento, parts of Switzerland and Kolding is way off.

 

[Captain Frakas]

ummm... I can't speak for the German side of it, but I can say that every Italian core he suggested there has a strong Italian ethnic presence

oops, I don't know that...
nevermind o

 

[Herr Doctor]

Kolding (Danish Schleswig)

I had already addressed this issue somewhere here… Germany never claimed Northern Slesvig (populated by ethnic Danes, btw) back, and such act never happened even after the occupation of the Danish territory. For example the territories were “transferred” from France, Luxembourg and Poland to the Greater Reich officially, but this never happened in Denmark.

 

[unmerged(51143)]

Germany claimed and obtained Trento from the RSI, after 8th september 1943, and Germany was also projecting to annex Veneto, Trieste and Istria to the Reich (but these last regions had few German-origin people).

All the territories I enlisted had a strong Italian or German ethnical presence, but for German Switzerland it was not a precise suggestion but a general consideration; in Tunisia there were tens thousands more Italians then Frenches (since the middle XIXth century), in 1942-43 Axis forces could enlist many of them. Actually, I suggested to exclude from Italian claimings Rijeka and Mostar.

Germany was never "at war" with Denmark, but occupied the country which King and Government stayed in charge and were namely still governing, now it is a possible explanation of why Northern Schleswig was never ceded to the Reich (on the other side, Netherlands became part of the Reich, not remaining namely indipendent as Denmark).

 

[unmerged(51143)]

Given that territorial claims also have effects on production and on partisan activity, i'm not agree with you...

I think that only provinces with at least a strong ethnical/cultural minority of it's mother nation should be a core province.

By the other side, Italy could be able to claim a half of Europe: mixing what was the Roman Empire (which from the end of 1st century b.C. should be better called Italian Empire, being Italy "metropolitan" territory from the Alps to Reggio Calabria and all its people being citizens since Augustus administrative reform, and only outside regions were Provinces then occupied territories) with all Italian emigrants all around Europe ...
Anyway, it is to be considered that even outside Nizza/Nice and Corsica/Corse many people in south-eastern France (Toulon, Marseille...or to call them with the Italian translation, Tolone and marsiglia) had Italian origins, directly or by ancestors.

An interesting option could be to give players the possibility to rename a province at least for legally annexed territories, actually all countries did this (Germans tended to do even before legal annexation...).

 

[Captain Frakas]

Italy could claim half of Europe if she want, but the old roman empire doesn't have any effect on the fact that peoples living inside the old roman empire borderss doesn't consideres themselves as italian people.

 

[Herr Doctor]

Germany was never "at war" with Denmark, but occupied the country which King and Government stayed in charge and were namely still governing, now it is a possible explanation of why Northern Schleswig was never ceded to the Reich (on the other side, Netherlands became part of the Reich, not remaining namely indipendent as Denmark).

In fact Denmark was at war for about 5 hours until the Germans took the Danish strategic objects and the Danish government had nothing but to surrender, accepting “temporary military occupation” (until 1943 all state spheres except military were under the control of the Danish government; after it the Germans established their own “government”). The answer is quite simple: Nazi Germany never claimed Northern Slesvig.

And the Netherlands were not officially part of the Greater Reich, but still under the direct control of the German occupation authorities (Dutch fate was left to be decided in future).

 

[unmerged(51143)]

Italy could claim half of Europe if she want, but the old roman empire doesn't have any effect on the fact that peoples living inside the old roman empire borderss doesn't consideres themselves as italian people.

It was only a joke!

 

[Passivocalia]

To follow this track, so that Germany claims pre-World War I borders and Italy claims Roman Empire borders, you would need events that removed the claimed provinces as cores once Germany/Italy actually owned them.

This would allow Italy to claim vast stretches of land, and perhaps take them, but the people living in them would not consider them national provinces.

 

[Carroarmato-P40]

To follow this track, so that Germany claims pre-World War I borders and Italy claims Roman Empire borders, you would need events that removed the claimed provinces as cores once Germany/Italy actually owned them.

This would allow Italy to claim vast stretches of land, and perhaps take them, but the people living in them would not consider them national provinces.

There would be a few of those claimed provinces which should remain core/national provinces.

 

[Sparrow]

Considering the Italian name for the city of Rijeka is actually Fiume why not?

 

[Myth]

AFAIK Hitler could have laid claim to the region of Trentino, as it had a strong Austrian minority, but did not because of Mussolini's support during the Munich Conference (I think?), which he said he would never forget. It probably belongs in an event, Germany may choose whether to lay claim to it or not

 

[Akaki]

I think that there should be two different options of claimed terriotory:
-Core provinces - as it is now, with minorities, cluture and all this stuff
-Claimed territory - For example claims in Africa - provinces that can be claimed, but still don't give owner all those goodies if it's not core province.

Why split this? To show that many countries wanted many many territories, not necesary national ones. To give Italy all those claims, like Adriatic coast, Nice, Malta blah blah... Cause as for now, Italy claims those Yugoslavian provinces, but were there any Italians, similar culture, ethnic possibilities of inheriting? No.

 

[Captain Frakas]

I think that there should be two different options of claimed terriotory:
-Core provinces - as it is now, with minorities, cluture and all this stuff
-Claimed territory - For example claims in Africa - provinces that can be claimed, but still don't give owner all those goodies if it's not core province.

Why split this? To show that many countries wanted many many territories, not necesary national ones. To give Italy all those claims, like Adriatic coast, Nice, Malta blah blah... Cause as for now, Italy claims those Yugoslavian provinces, but were there any Italians, similar culture, ethnic possibilities of inheriting? No.

It's impossible to mod. it without editing the .exe
And I doubt that many guys in the core team know how to do that...

 

[baylox]

It's impossible to mod. it without editing the .exe
And I doubt that many guys in the core team know how to do that...

It is not a question of if we can or not, it's just not something we do.

 

[unmerged(21069)]

Italy claims those Yugoslavian provinces, but were there any Italians, similar culture, ethnic possibilities of inheriting? No.

actually, yes. Not all the way down the coast, but certainly the farthest north two coastal provinces had significant Italian minorities, and many coastal Croats speak Italian fluently

 

[Carroarmato-P40]

actually, yes. Not all the way down the coast, but certainly the farthest north two coastal provinces had significant Italian minorities, and many coastal Croats speak Italian fluently

Actually, the Italians have had quite an interest in the Dalmatian coast/Illyrian provinces. The Romans of coarse, then after cirta 450AD the Venetians and Genoese were messing around with the area in the 12th to 15th centuries and as one would expect, there was a fair bit of pan Adriactic immigration.