New Irish provinces

[riadach]

Decided to put these all here in one place so that they're readily accessible should devs wish to use them:

Ok @Snow Crystal

View attachment 402097

I can do a few bits on Connacht first.


5 = Muaide/North Connacht - Which would be initially held by the Uí Fiachrach Muaide (a rival to the later Uí Bhriúin dynasties) in earlier start dates, who would become the Uí Dhubda in later dates.

In 769:

It was held by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donn_Cothaid_mac_Cathail. Interesting, is that he was considered to be King of All Connacht and would die in 773. He had one son we know of, Cathmug, who died in 787.

After that, we have a genealogy for the Uí Fiachrach Muaide/Uí Dubhda that connects them to the 1066 start, the ones in bold were kings of the Muaide, underlined were kings of all Connacht .

Donnchathadh mac Cathail d.773
Cathmug d.787
Dubhda
Ceallach
Aodh d. 983
Maelruanaid d. 1009
Maileclainn ?
Niall ?
Taichleach ?
Aodh d.1059
Muircheartach 1095

Dubhda, a quo Ua Dubhda, may be the perfect candidate for the 867 start and Muircheartach son of Aodh would work well for the 1066 start.

Kinglists are far more complete after Muircheartach.


7 Maig Seóla/ West Connacht - Initially held by the Uí Briúin Seola (a quo the Uí Flaithbertaig) a reputed collateral branch of the Uí Bhriúin Ai who would later dominate the kingship of Connacht.


The last Uí Briúin Seola king of all Connacht was Cenn Faelad who died in 682. We do not know who was king of Maig Seóla/Iarchonnacht in 769, but we have some candidates from the genealogies which we can trace fo the 11th century:

Cenn Fáelad d. 682
Amalgaid
Fland Rodba
Fiangalach
Flaithnia
Máenach
Murchadh d. 896.
Uroman
Eimín
Máel Cúlard
Muiredach d. 1034
Ruairí Ua Flaithbertaig d.1062
Aed Ua Flaithbertaig d. 1079.

Our 1066 candidate then is Aed Ua Flaithbertaig and Murchadh, or his father Máenach, would be the likely candidates for 867. Murchadh was a big deal given Muintir Murchadha was the title given to thd sept after him.

As for 769, the annals list one Donn mac Cumasgach as king of Maig Seóla for 752 though we don't know his provenance. Perhaps Fiangalach in the genealogy list could provide us with the character we need.

Sources:

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/connacht.htm#mua
http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/connacht.htm#seo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iar_Connacht#Kings_of_Iar_Connacht
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Dowd
Byrne, F. J. (1973) Irish Kings and High-Kings. Dublin 1973.

@Snow Crystal

I'm going to focus here on the extra Munster province. Number 15.

15 - Iarmumhain - This was held by the Ciarraige Luachra Dynasty, who would later become the Uí Conchobhair Ciarraige

In 769:

For 791, we have a reference to one Maelcobha son of Flann Feorna as king of the Ciarriage. Therefore, Maelcobha, or even his father Flann Feorna could be our starting point.


The genealogy we have is as follows:

Flann Feorna
¦
Maelcobha d. 791
¦
Cobhthach d. 848
¦
Cormac
¦
Indreachtach ?Maolghorm c. 903
¦
Diarmaid ---- Cormac d. 910
¦
Muiredach d. 1004
¦
Conchobhar ---- Mac Bethad d. 1014 ---- Mac Raith d. 1015. ---- Mathgamhain
¦ .............................................................................................................................¦
Cathal....................................................................................................................Mac d. 1032
¦
Conchobhar d. 1033
¦
Mac Bethad d. 1086
¦
Mac Raith

I think, then, we can choose Cormac Ciarraige as ruler for the 867 start and Mac Bethad Ua Concobhair Ciarraige as king for the 1066 start.

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/munster.htm#ciarraige

@Snow Crystal

I want to now focus on the extra province in Leinster that I think should be held by the rival claimant to the Leinster throne, the Uí Dhúnlainge. However. The position would indicate that that should be 17, and the old Ossory character history assigned to 19. (I have posted an alternative map elsewhere).

So

17 North Leinster - Laigin Tuathgabair.

This should be held by the Uí Dúnlainge dynasties of North Leinster. These were kings of the entire province until they were usurped by Diarmait mac Maíl na mBó king of the Uí Ceinnsalaig in the 11th century.

The following were not only kings of the Uí Dúnlainge, but for the most part, kings of all Leinster.

19. Cellach mac Dúnchada d.776
20. Ruaidrí mac Faelán d. 785
21. Brad Ardchenn mac Muiredaig d. 795
22. Finsnechta mac Cellaig d. 808
23. Muiredach mac Ruaidrí d. 785
24. Cellach mac Broin d. 834
25. Bran mac Faeláin d. 838
26. Ruarc mac Broin c. 846 deposed
27. Lorcán mac Cellaig c. 848 deposed
28. Tuathal mac Muiredaig d. 854
29. Muirecán mac Diarmata d. 863
30. Dúnlaing mac Muiredaig d. 869
31. Ailill mac Dúnlainge d. 871
32. Domnall mac Muirecáin d. 884
33. Muiredach mac Broin d. 885
34.Cerball mac Muirecán d. 909
35. Augaire mac Ailella d. 917
36. Faelán mac Muiredaig d. 942
37. Lorcán mac Faeláin d. 943
38. Bróen mac Máelmórda d. 947.
39. Tuathal mac Augaire d. 958
40. Cellach mac Fáelán d. 966
41. Murchadh mac Finn d. 972
42. Augaire mac Tuathail d. 978
43. Domnall Claen d. 984
44. Donnchadh mac Domnaill dep. 1003.
45. Maelmordha mac Murchada & Donnchadh mac Dúnlainge d. 1014.
46. Donncuan mac Dúnlainge d. 1016
47 Bran mac Maelmórdha dep. 1018
48. Augaire mac Dúnlainge d. 1024.
49. Donnchadh mac Dúnlainge d. 1036
50. Murchadh mac Dúnlainge d. 1042.

You can see the relationship between the dynasts here:

Our characters for 769 and 867 then should be Cellach mac Dúnchada and Dúnlaing mac Muiredaig respectively.

After they lose the Kingship of Leinster to the Uí Cheinnsalaig, I think we should focus on the Uí Muiredaig branch as they seem the most dominant. At that stage they become the Uí Thuathail after no. 39 on the liste above.

View attachment 402573


This probably means that our candidate for 1066 should be Donncuan son of Gilla Caeimghin Ua Tuathail.

Byrne, F.J. (1973): Irish Kings and High-Kings. Dublin p 289.
http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/leinst2.htm#muiredaig
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.genealogy.medieval/2006-01/msg01057.html

@Snow Crystal

10 North Brega/Cnogba/Knowth

From the seventh century the Kingdom of Brega had been split in two, between the descendants of Congal and the descendants of Diarmait mac Aedo, boths sons of Áed Sláine and thus, both members of Uí Néill Noígiallaigh. They formed, respectively, the Kingdoms of North Brega (based out of Cnogba/Knowth), and the Kingdom of South Brega (Based out of Lagore or Loch Gabhra). A fair representation of this on the Ireland map would be 10 as North Brega and 12 as South Brega/Dublin. Currently, in the 769 start, Congalach mac Conaing is listed as the King of Dublin. However, as we can see from the genealogical table, he was king of North Brega. Perhaps then, a swap is in order and he should be made king of the new province in 10 and a king of South Brega, Cernach (see table) should be made king of Dublin.

With the arrival of the Vikings, the Southern Dynasty went into decline, but the Northern one went from strength to strength. In 867, Flann mac Conaing, King of Cnogba was a major player in Irish politics and an ally of the High King, Áed Findliath, before joining the norse against them. He then, would be a perfect candidate for king of the province in 867. The dynasty would later go on to provide a High-King, Congalach Cnogba, d. 956.

Kings of Brega, North and South.
View attachment 403098

The dynasty would begin to decline in the 11th century. Firstly, by internal pressure such as from their erstwhile vassals, the Uí Chathasaigh and later, by the burgeoning power of the Uí Ruairc and their subkings, the Uí Raghallaigh of Muintir Eolais.

The situation in 1066 is probably that Cellach mac Flannacáin held the province, though he may have struggled to retain it against the likes of Gairbith Ua Cathasaigh and Mael Mórdha Ua Cathasaigh. One Trénair Ua Ceallaigh would hold the title at his death in 1093. Another Cellach Ua Cellaigh would be the last to hold the title, King of Brega, and he died in 1146. In later centuries, the Ó Raghallaigh clan would take over, beginning with Gofraidh Ua Raghallaigh who died in 1161.


Sources:

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/suineill.htm#slaine

Donnchadh Ó Corráin "High-Kings, Vikings and Other Kings" Irish Historical Studies, Vol. 22, No. 83 (Mar., 1979), pp. 283-323.
G. Eogan and F. J. Byrne "Excavations at Knowth, Co. Meath, 1962-1965" Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy: Archaeology, Culture, History, Literature, Vol. 66 (1967/1968), pp. 299-400

@Snow Crystal last but not least:

9 Tethba/Teffia

A province in western Westmeath/Longford owned by the Cenel Maine. The Cenél Maine were supposedly descended from Maine son of Niall Noígiallach, thus in the earlier stages they would have been considered Uí Néill Noígiallaigh, though took no part in the succession of the High-Kingship:

View attachment 403186



In 767, the ruler should be Bec Tethba d. 770 son of Condla. (All characters in bold held the kingship of Tethba).

View attachment 403182



For 867, it should be Mael Chiaráin d. 877 son of Conaing.



View attachment 403181




For 1066, it should be Tadg, grandson of Muircheartach of the Muintir Thadhgáin, a branch of Cenel Maine:



View attachment 403180


Sources:

Paul Walsh "Tethbae" Ériu, Vol. 13 (1942), pp. 88-94
Margaret E. Dobbs "The Territory and People of Tethba" The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Seventh Series, Vol. 8, No. 2 (Dec. 31, 1938), pp. 241-259, Vol. 11, No. 3 (Sep. 30, 1941), pp. 101-110, Vol. 12, No. 4 (Dec. 31, 1942), pp. 136-148.

Hope this helps.

 

[Snow Crystal]

Awesome, thanks.

 

[riadach]

Awesome, thanks.

No worries.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[riadach]

Here's an early genealogy of the Dál gCais if anyone wants to give them Thomond at the earlier start dates:

 

[benjaseth]

Here is an picture of the new provinces in-game, for those who didn't see it in the stream.

 

[riadach]

Hey, so I like the expansion of Ireland, which I had not expected to be updated in Holy Fury. But I noticed right off the bat it seems kind of off in Connacht, for a few reasons.
1. Ros Comáin/Roscommon is now in the wrong province. The actual town is in the land within the new province of "Uí Máine".
2. Related to that, the power base of the Ua Briúin Aí/Ua Conchobair dynasty wasn't "Iarthar Connachta", it was the northern portion of what is in the game as the "Uí Máine" province. "Iarthar Connachta" was the region of the Ua Briúin Seola/Ua Flaithbertaig dynasty. That dynasty is already in the game as landless courtiers except for the duke level one in the late 1090s, which is weird now.
3. The text over the lakes says "Lough Mask" even though it's over Lough Corrib.
I stand open to corrections, and I understand it's easy for a lot of things to go unnoticed in as big a patch as this, but so far as I can see an entire dynasty and town is in the wrong province. I won't tell developers or professional historians how to do their jobs, but splitting Uí Máine in two or giving it to the Ua Conchobairs seems more accurate than relocating not just them but Roscommon westwards. Just my two cents.

I would agree with you for the most part. But it's interesting to have the Uí Maine in game nonetheless, but the Uí Briúin Seola should certainly be stronger in the 1066 start.