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Rusty, Old EU2MPer
Sep 4, 2002
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Drew is actually one of the best players around, in EU2 at lest. Also all players are better than the AI, and you're quite lucky that we bothered to try and find you one, especially as you didn't bother to actually say that you couldn't be here.

The simple fact is that he underestimated the political situation, by continuing the war with switzerland even when both Germany (110 mil, 850 industry) and France (600ish industry, 150 mil) told him to WP them. Russia seemed to be very interested to jump on in, but they never fought a single Austrian, only swooped in and occupied Hungary.

France had DoWed earlier than I because I wasn't as ready as they were. They were doing well, but Drew knowing I would join had kept 60-70 divisons along the German border. At first Germany didn't take much ground, Austria's terrain proved to be quite a challenge. However after a few months many of my troops were either east of Berlin, or southwest of Karlsbad. The months long battle of Karlsbad where I had quite a numerical superiority to offset my efficency was ended by 35 extra Austrian divisons being being reinforced there, leaving me outnumbered 3 to 1.

My troops retreated west and southwest, leaving a free series of provinces between Saxony and Berlin. Drew pushed forward before I could gather my Silesian armies and we meet on the outskirts of Berlin in a battle of 700k. At the same time there was a similar sized battle in a province of Saxony. We were relatively even matched, but 2 months of attrition on Drew's part meant I soon had almost a 3 to 1 superiority, and finally I was able to annilhate both 30 or 35 odd divisonal armies. Also around this time France had just won the battle of Milano, so together we destroyed 90% of the Austrian army in that month or so. I think Drew was having retreat bug problems, which led to the annilhations. I also had this problem in Karlsbad.

You may say that he did really badly, but the fact was that he had war on all his sides, so that in itself is quite a distraction and can be a factor of it. As you can see, he had 3 major battles going on at the same time, along with the retreat bug which probably stopped him from being able to pull back.
 

Lamprey

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3 Years with an Idiot

After checking the save file, I've decided to post a few screenshots. These are graphic in nature and not for the faint of heart. Viewer discretion is advised.

When last we left you, Austria was making between 200 & 300/day while funding crime and maintained a 60+ division standing army. Industry score was well over 700 and happily climbing. Emperor Franz Josef was looking forward to more peaceful economic development, allied with Russia and the Ottoman Empire.

Fast forward to 1876. An idiot, who shall remain nameless, is taxing all his classes at 100%. Austria now has a 350 industry score and no clerks. Clerks, as we all know, affect research point generation and have a huge impact on factory efficiency.

01a.jpg


To add to the fun, more than 50% of the entire population is now socialist. Now, I'm not 100% sure on how the sub (good name, it brings sinking to mind) managed that in such a short time, but that's not the kicker. Read on.

02.jpg


The normal response after seeing such ruination would be to assume the communists will now run things. So, off we go to institute some social reforms (70k down the drain... ouch) - universal suffrage and free parties, to let our newly minted socialists elect their own government into power. Otherwise, as we all know, their militancy will increase when not mollified by their own ruling party.

So, here we go:

04.jpg


But, surprise, surprise! Austria has no socialist party!

05.jpg


Now this is scary news. It means that the militancy of more than half the population of the country will always increase, forever unchecked.

07.jpg


Notice something missing? That's right, no curent ruling party to decrease militancy! It could theoretically be solved by always maintaining an army division in every single province, of course (-0.20) and reducing taxes to 0 (-0.15). But read on! We're about to show the budget!

The budget is not in the bst of shapes. If you recall, before the sub took over, Austria was funding crime and making a good surplus. Here's how it fares now, when NOT funding crime, having defense at minimum, and army (now down from 60+ divisions to a handsome 7) maintenance at 50%.

08.jpg


You might ask, but hey - just don't fund army at all! You might say that, but you won't. You won't because you will remember that with half the population's militancy forever rising, revolts will be a VERY real problem, VERY soon. In fact, as can be seen from the revoltrisk map, the situation's already gotten a good head start!

03.jpg


Let's have a show of hands. Who thinks Austria is still playable after withstanding the gentle management of the sub?

And Bocaj, don't be shy. Tell me again how Drew is the best player around :rofl:
 

Specterx

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I'm not a hundred percent clear on why there are so many socialists. Though I suspect much of this is due to Austria attempting to fight on after the occupation of Wien.

Would editing in a socialist party (with the appropriate national priorities) be a solution?
 

Lamprey

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Hell no it wouldn't be a solution. Would it solve the loss of 500/day income too? Or the lost of about 5 million capitalists, or twice that number of clerks? Because losing those cuts down Austria's RP generation by something like 30%. What about the standing army?

At this point, it's either go back to a save from a few years before or let the AI run the country. You guys decide which is preferable to you.
 

Lamprey

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I wouldn't put him in Austria at this point, if he let things get this bad when Austria was in top shape there's no way he'll be able to handle the train wreck the country it now. At least have him play a campaign or two on single player so he gets a hang of Vicky and read some beginner tips.
 

Gaius Marius I

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actually, during the memnon vs OE war, i had my capital and over half my territories occupied, and i still fought on. of course maybe my being behind in tech and industry has something to do with that then...
 

Memnon

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Specterx said:
I'll edit a socialist party in later this week.
Wow. Wow. What did that guy do to my Austria?! When I left, that country was arguably the most powerful in Europe, proportionally certainly, if not in absolute terms as well. But now...Jesus. I can hardly look.

50% socialist?! I couldn't even do that if I tried! :eek:

And like Lamprey says, editing in a socialist party is *not* the solution here.

May I make the humbe suggestion that some of you recognize that you don't quite have a full bearing on the more complicated aspects of the game? Read the manual. Read VickyWiki. It may help you out a bit.
 

Lamprey

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Gaius, you're confusing some fundamental concepts here. It doesn't matter if half your country is occupied, as long as you know what you're doing the worst you'll end up with is debt. Conversely, the stuff the guy playing Austria did would sink ANY country, provinces being occupied or not makes no difference here. Taxing everyone at 100% for extended periods of time leads to irreversible social & economic damage - it's like shooting a man to prevent him from catching a cold.

Also, for Austria, allowing your armies (he had 180 divisions to work with which would've let him fight a defensive war for years if he hadn't lost it) to get encircled and destroyed is especially bad for a multicultural country like Austria. Letting them be destroyed destoys the pops they ate tied to; and with so many cultures, there will be a LOT of pops lost from it, more than in a country like France or Prussia. War exhaustion will also add up much quicker and will stay longer after the war.

Of course, in EU2, losing troops is no big deal and debt IS a big deal so it's understandable why he did what he did; he thought he was playing EU3 instead of Vicky. But you can't pretend he only caused superficial damage that can be fixed with a bandaid like putting in a socialist party to assuage your guilt at making someone continue on with Austria now, because you don't want to lose 5 years.
 

unmerged(10894)

Rusty, Old EU2MPer
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There are some good links to conduct in MP games in the EU2 forum if you would like me to get you some links. Perhaps it would be of interest to both former Austrian players.
 

Lamprey

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Sure. I'll look for a rule about subs preventing them from total and thorough destruction of the country subbed for :)
 

Specterx

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Lamprey said:
Sure. I'll look for a rule about subs preventing them from total and thorough destruction of the country subbed for :)

I'll say it yet again. That is the risk you take when you don't show up for the session, don't provide any advance notice or instructions, and don't find your own sub.

Now why don't you and Memnon let the rest of us get on with the game.
 

Gaius Marius I

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Lamprey said:
Gaius, you're confusing some fundamental concepts here. It doesn't matter if half your country is occupied, as long as you know what you're doing the worst you'll end up with is debt. Conversely, the stuff the guy playing Austria did would sink ANY country, provinces being occupied or not makes no difference here. Taxing everyone at 100% for extended periods of time leads to irreversible social & economic damage - it's like shooting a man to prevent him from catching a cold.

i'll tell you what, the only reason my armies weren't totally annihilated too, was because of that stupid lucky colonial war, which the AI didn't end to bring the army back to get slaughtered. granted you've lost alot more, but only because you've built and created more... i'm probably the biggest newb in this game, including count drew... and though as specterx has pointed out, annexing several uncivs on my borders would give me alot more resources and income to use, its a sign perhaps of my relative inability that i don't take this advice. If it wasn't for me being absent from a session, russia/austria combined would have crippled me in the crimean war, taking away bosnia/my satellite of wallachia/the eastern armenian iron provs.
 

Lamprey

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Gaius Marius I said:
If it wasn't for me being absent from a session, russia/austria combined would have crippled me in the crimean war, taking away bosnia/my satellite of wallachia/the eastern armenian iron provs.

Sounds like that was your lucky day. Imagine what'd have happened if they found drew to sub for you :rofl:
 

Kyran

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I'm sorry gentlemen but it seems like I might not make it to this week's session seeing as I'm throwing a little get togeather. I'll try to find a sub, but since the vicky population is quite small it is very remote that i would find one.
 

Gaius Marius I

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i'm sitting in vnet right now, sounds like could use a couple extra players this session, to take care of austria/russia, or just to join in and have some fun, so i don't think i'll be overstepping my bounds if i extend an invite to any free vicky players to join us this evening...