New feature suggestion "Loyalists"

[lockey04]

When one of your vassalt revolt (either for independence, install a claimant or depose his liege), its kinda irritating that while some vassals join his plot, others who love their king or simply hate the rebels a lot just stand there and watch how it goes. It would make more sense if "loyalists" vassals would raise their own troops to lay waste on the rebels, especely thoses who live at the border of ennemy countrys that might decide to invade them at the same time. They would be motivated for their own defense to end the rebellion faster.

On the other hand, you could have ambitious vassals joining the war in hope they you will reward them with land revoked from the rebels, like a count deciding to swear allegiance to his king instead of his rebelling liege duke in hope of getting the duchy for himself or a neighboaring duke eyeing some juicy land.

And youd have thoses who join simply for their loyalty to their liege or simply to mess up their neightboar that they hate with a passion.

Of course there would be also thoses who stay neutral like they are all doing at the moment if they have no real interest in the conflict (like they like/hate the king as much as the rebels) but it would make rebellions more dynamic.

 

[Djieh]

I would support that change wholeheartedly. Never understood the fact that you couldn't join your liege's/vassal's war anyway. Is that so unrealistic, historically speaking (honestly, I have no idea)? What about those trying to "suck up" to their liege? Or what about joining a campaign your liege is fighting against some neighboring ruler in the hopes of getting a county or two thrown your way later if he conquers more than he can make good use of? And the other way around: Wouldn't a king who gave a county to his son find it worthwhile to help his son keep the county in his possession? On the other hand, it would probably mess with the balance of inner-realm warfare quite a bit if the liege could just pick a side whenever he felt like it.

 

[Heartsbane]

Loyalists? Lol you should know there are no loyal vassals in CK2. They all either want independence, lower Crown Authority,or have your unlanded Danish nephew to replace you as King.

 

[Frax]

mhm a nice little trait says loyalist that gives you 1 diplomacy, having a bigger chance of getting land from it aswell would be nice. lossing it ofc if you were to rebel later.

 

[Coniuratos]

Maybe a "Loyalist" faction could be added, with the ruler automatically leading it. Rather than start their own rebellions, the members could be set to raise troops for rebel-whacking.

 

[Rozmarzony]

Maybe a "Loyalist" faction could be added, with the ruler automatically leading it. Rather than start their own rebellions, the members could be set to raise troops for rebel-whacking.

+1

 

[unmerged(589171)]

Vaguely interesting: there is an unused trait icon called "Crown Loyalist" in the game.

 

[Coniuratos]

Oh, and in the event that the ruler is deposed, maybe they could automatically form a faction to restore him (or his rightful heir) to the throne.

 

[Wallain]

Maybe a "Loyalist" faction could be added, with the ruler automatically leading it. Rather than start their own rebellions, the members could be set to raise troops for rebel-whacking.

Not a bad idea. What else could we have these loyalists do?

 

[nyah]

Without commenting on the virtues of the OP, if this was going to be implemented it would have been done already. There have been threads about it since the first dev diaries which mentioned factions, and numerous ones since then.

 

[Djieh]

Maybe a "Loyalist" faction could be added, with the ruler automatically leading it. Rather than start their own rebellions, the members could be set to raise troops for rebel-whacking.

I recently found something within the forum about the CKII+ mod. The developers implemented a different faction mechanic that added a loyalist faction (if i recall correctly). I haven't played any mods so far but that one looked very interesting.

 

[omnipotentatus]

I recently found something within the forum about the CKII+ mod. The developers implemented a different faction mechanic that added a loyalist faction (if i recall correctly). I haven't played any mods so far but that one looked very interesting.

Wiz has implemented Court faction, Princely faction, Republican faction and a Religious faction. Can't really say whether it's superior to the vanilla faction system, but it definitely leads to smaller realms being stable while large realms such as the ERE and HRE are rather unstable with lots of rebellion for lower crown authority.

But the system OP is suggesting with rebel whacking loyalists and vassal counts and dukes choosing whether to be neutral join the rebellion or stay loyal while participating actively in the war against the rebels sounds like a great idea, and would be superior to the current system. But it would require that Paradox revise the whole faction with the requirements for joining and leaving factions, because as it is now no vassal and everyone wants to rebel, as people suggest there should be a loyalist faction with the King/Emperor always being the faction leader and where faction members cannot join other factions.

 

[Bj0rn]

This reminds me how Civil War happens in the GoT mod

 

[Beric Dondarion]

Vanilla would benifet from game of thrones mod civil wars. It works like this:

The ERE is in a civil war.
All direct vassals can choose to assist the rebels, Emperor, or remain neutral(opinion malus on both sides)
All direct vassals of them can choose to support their lord's choice or rebel.
Once the war ends the vassals are put back under vassalage, and if the emperor wins he can punish the rebels by taking land, imprisoning, executing, or doing nothing etc

 

[Divi]

Maybe this could be partly done by having claimant factions remaining as long as the character is alive; that way you also don't have stupid things like AI vassals going for another claimant 2 days after they just fought a civil war to put your danish third cousin on the english throne, the old rebels are now the new loyalists.

 

[Martinus]

I fail to see what the point of that would be. Any vassal not in a faction is by default a loyalist - because he sends troops to the liege under the general mechanics if the liege goes to war with one or more factions.

 

[Roguedemon]

Wiz has implemented Court faction, Princely faction, Republican faction and a Religious faction. Can't really say whether it's superior to the vanilla faction system, but it definitely leads to smaller realms being stable while large realms such as the ERE and HRE are rather unstable with lots of rebellion for lower crown authority.

But the system OP is suggesting with rebel whacking loyalists and vassal counts and dukes choosing whether to be neutral join the rebellion or stay loyal while participating actively in the war against the rebels sounds like a great idea, and would be superior to the current system. But it would require that Paradox revise the whole faction with the requirements for joining and leaving factions, because as it is now no vassal and everyone wants to rebel, as people suggest there should be a loyalist faction with the King/Emperor always being the faction leader and where faction members cannot join other factions.

I think wiz's system is at least somewhat better than vanilla - whther or not you agree with the factions it is certainly easier to influence them in a meaningful way, and they aren't always after your blood for no good reason either. I remember that while playing CK2+ as king of the Isles I had a rebellion and one of my factions decided to be loyalist in an event (which I think gave me more of their troops), but after I put down the rebellion I had an event where I had to decide how (or if) they should be rewarded. What I like about the system is that it does give some nuance to the politics in your realm and it also means you don't have to have everyone loving you all the time, as the nobles of the realm are usually more concerned with their own priviledges rather than joining factions to replace you with your unlanded idiot brother even when they love you. Wiz's system may not be perfect, but at least it makes sense.

 

[Bob_the_Insane]

I fail to see what the point of that would be. Any vassal not in a faction is by default a loyalist - because he sends troops to the liege under the general mechanics if the liege goes to war with one or more factions.

I have to admit that I agree with this...

Unless you are completely revising the factions like some mods then a loyalist if effectively anyone not in a faction...

In CK1 there were events for vassals that could get you the loyalist trait, not sure if they are in CK2 but even if they were in I am sure they would just give a + opinion making less likely for individuals to join factions...

Having said that I saw two dukes in a faction to put another claimant on the throne in my Byz game and both had Opinions of +100... I should have taken a screenshot... I guess it could have been momentary before they dropped out of the faction...

 

[Ruskhan]

I fail to see what the point of that would be. Any vassal not in a faction is by default a loyalist - because he sends troops to the liege under the general mechanics if the liege goes to war with one or more factions.

yep.. there is "loyalists" already in the game

 

[cl4yn4tion]

I agree that a loyalist faction would be a fantastic addition, especially if it serves as a deterrent to rebel factions. Usurpation factions, prince A is better than King factions, secession and coup d'etats would be less likely to happen if the king's supporters controlled 70% of the power. It would also give a winning usurper a list of you to replace/banish/execute then just automatically assume that every lord who was neutral was against the rebels.