New European Provinces Wishlist

[Sousuke123]

Except that it gets the Flemish cultural border wrong and puts an entire provinces out of reach of the main cultural body? Liège should be a two-province country, made up of Liège and Loon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Loon

Liège was centered around ... Liège. Loon was centered around Hasselt (the modern province of Belgian Limburg).

This map shows border in 1250 while i showed you 100 years later one.

Thats pre-1559 map of bishopric
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...ediaviewer/File:Belgian_Medieval_Dioceses.png

or sth similar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevent...bsburg_Netherlands_by_Alexis-Marie_Gochet.png

So maybe if devs would rework LW to this Seventeen Provnces as they were in history would best for LW

 

[jrgen3]

This map shows border in 1250 while i showed you 100 years later one.

Thats pre-1559 map of bishopric
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...ediaviewer/File:Belgian_Medieval_Dioceses.png

or sth similar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevent...bsburg_Netherlands_by_Alexis-Marie_Gochet.png

So maybe if devs would rework LW to this Seventeen Provnces as they were in history would best for LW

His map is correct. Loon was annexed by Liège in 1366.

 

[atomicpower]

Change the Moldavian borders!

I think they are changing them, by splitting up the Moldavia province into two.

 

[exin]

I'd actually say that Wallachia and Moldavia should both have 4 provinces each. it is a good balance for two countries that both had territory to loose, and territory left to allow them to regain lost land. Dobruja or Dobrogea or Constantia, or how ever the province south of the Danube Delta is called should be separate from the 4 provinces of Wallachia and 4 of Moldavia. That provinces changed hands too many times.

And I'd say Transylvania also should have at least 4 provinces too. It was a rich enough region that it was autonomous for long periods of time and it had a different regime inside the Hungarian Kingdom. For the most part Transylvania was a Vassal of Hungary, and I think it should have the provinces to support being the proper Vassal it was.

Given all that is because the three were kingdoms as strong as Bosnia, Serbia and late Bulgaria, and even outlived them. Which if you go by the provinces in game, you get the contrary opinion.

 

[jrgen3]

I agree with you on Moldavia. The border I would use are the partition borders. Would give really nice looking borders.

 

[Phalanx300]

This is what the Low Countries should look like ...

View attachment 116713

Paradox, if nothing else, please at least split Liège into wallonian Liège & flemish Loon. Borders look horrible as it is.

This essentially, borders are terrible to look at. Also adding Westfrisia is justified and Frisian should be a new culture. Also Cleves should be Dutch seeing it historically was, only in more recent times was the area "Germanified". Frisian culture is also needed as they are not quite Dutch but not any kind of German either.

 

[jrgen3]

This essentially, borders are terrible to look at. Also adding Westfrisia is justified and Frisian should be a new culture. Also Cleves should be Dutch seeing it historically was, only in more recent times was the area "Germanified". Frisian culture is also needed as they are not quite Dutch but not any kind of German either.

The border between Dutch and German is not clear and is very gradual. Even as far as Cologne.

 

[Derdiedas]

I would be glad if Bohmerwald would be split into West Bohemia/Eberland and South Bohemia.

 

[VincentX]

The border between Dutch and German is not clear and is very gradual. Even as far as Cologne.

This is true. But Kleef (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Cleves) has been part of the Netherlands at various occassions and Dutch remained the official administrative language deep into the 19th century. Its dialect is called Kleverlands (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleverlands, no English link, sorry) and is still counted as a Dutch dialect, not a German one.

(Eventually Dutch was forbidden by the nazi's in 1936 and this is was how it was stamped out. As a native speaker of Dutch, I'm able to still see which towns have a Dutch heritage as opposed to German by their official names.)

As for Cologne ... yeah, that's where things become really, really fuzzy. But as that area was never Dutch in any official capacity as far as I know, and it could go either way, I'm not making the case for that. (Even though King Willem 1 was offered the Lower Rhine, which he declined, heh.)

 

[Ruwaard]

@ VincentX: originally the HRE parts of the Low Countries did belong to the archdiocese of Cologne. Furthermore the last duke of (a united) Lotharingia, so before the Lower and Upper Lorraine split was archbishop of Cologne. However this is more early CK II era.
In terms of the dialect of Cologne, like most Dutch dialects has a Frankish/Franconian origin, but even though it is in a mixed area, it is considered to be on the 'German side of the border' within the same dialect continuum.

 

[Phalanx300]

The border between Dutch and German is not clear and is very gradual. Even as far as Cologne.

Dutch had some major enclaves in Germany such as Cleves, Bentheim and another one I can't quite remember. These areas were mostly Dutch in language and culture but in 1800s or something were "Germanified" with the rise of Nationalism.

 

[jrgen3]

Dutch had some major enclaves in Germany such as Cleves, Bentheim and another one I can't quite remember. These areas were mostly Dutch in language and culture but in 1800s or something were "Germanified" with the rise of Nationalism.

Yes, they occupied Cleves from Brandenburg from sometime during the 30 years' war to the Franco-Dutch war in 1672. They didn't "own" it, but in EUIV, I would probably give it to them and a core to Brandenburg.

 

[wergy]

I love how many players see this thread as a way to demand buffing their home country
Most of the countries are fine in Europe as they are now. What really would need some more work is Silesia, Italy, and the HRE in general. Oh, and Northern Poland/Teutonic Order.

 

[VincentX]

@ VincentX: originally the HRE parts of the Low Countries did belong to the archdiocese of Cologne. Furthermore the last duke of (a united) Lotharingia, so before the Lower and Upper Lorraine split was archbishop of Cologne. However this is more early CK II era.
In terms of the dialect of Cologne, like most Dutch dialects has a Frankish/Franconian origin, but even though it is in a mixed area, it is considered to be on the 'German side of the border' within the same dialect continuum.

Yeah, I know. But again, it's very fuzzy, while Kleef and Loon are clear-cut.

 

[jrgen3]

I love how many players see this thread as a way to demand buffing their home country
Most of the countries are fine in Europe as they are now. What really would need some more work is Silesia, Italy, and the HRE in general. Oh, and Northern Poland/Teutonic Order.

I am not demanding a buff for my home country (Norway). I do quite the opposite. However, this thread is quite interesting to me as a (primarily map) modder to see what provinces people think are the most important.

 

[JPGM22]

I love how many players see this thread as a way to demand buffing their home country
Most of the countries are fine in Europe as they are now. What really would need some more work is Silesia, Italy, and the HRE in general. Oh, and Northern Poland/Teutonic Order.

I think it happens too because I know better the History of my country than the History of other nations.

 

[VincentX]

I love how many players see this thread as a way to demand buffing their home country
Most of the countries are fine in Europe as they are now. What really would need some more work is Silesia, Italy, and the HRE in general. Oh, and Northern Poland/Teutonic Order.

I don't think that many people want buffs. Everyone just wants Nice Borders (tm).

 

[saegoto]

I don't think that many people want buffs. Everyone just wants Nice Borders (tm).

yeah. we just want accurate borders. btw polish north border/teutonic order is so ugly!

 

[jrgen3]

yeah. we just want accurate borders. btw polish north border/teutonic order is so ugly!

This is very correct. It should be very different. Ostpreussen should have an arm stretching along the southern border of the Teutonic Order (or split off Masuria).

 

[Therion]

There are already highly detailed maps like the one used in MEIOU which however slows down the game quite a bit.

I think vanilla should only be limited to essential provinces.

Italy, for instance, does not need more than 2/3 provinces - Urbino, Montferrat and Ticino/Valtellina. Cuneo can be removed. I would probably also remove Cremona and add Alessandria or Novara in between Piedmont and Lombardia (renamed to Milan) instead.

Sicily does not need more provinces. Syracuse wasn't that large anyway.