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Meneth

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So the DE in the current PB (v.3.3.4) is completely updated ?
Essentially, when jordarkelf was busy IRL, I continued making some updates to the DE implemented in PB.
When jordarkelf came back, he used that to release a version for vanilla again (even asked for permission, which I obviously gave since it is his mod anyway); it's essentially identical to the PB implementation.

So yes, the DE in PB is completely up to date unless jordarkelf made some minor tweaks when rereleasing his mod.
 

Mike Louis

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Has Duel Engine been updated for vanilla 2.0 yet? I used it in previous versions of my personal mod.
 

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Thanks for updating this mod, i really enjoyed using it when it was last compatible with the modmix i was using.

I saw you mention compatibility patches after your last update. I also saw some mentions of mod compatibility around PB and VIET.
It may be too early for me to ask, but im interested in whether a CK2+ compatible version is on the to-do list some time in the future.
 

Ethan194

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I am using the mod (I have installed many mods sice ck2 has came out, and have used different versions of this one) but have encountered a problem, when I load the game with the dual engine no characters have swordsmanship traits I have not played past that point due to assuming the files have not loaded for some reason.
 

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I am using the mod (I have installed many mods sice ck2 has came out, and have used different versions of this one) but have encountered a problem, when I load the game with the dual engine no characters have swordsmanship traits I have not played past that point due to assuming the files have not loaded for some reason.
No-one starts with the traits, they are given over time, now by multiple events. Characters either gain them through education, or through actual combat. If you let the game run for a generation just about everyone will have them.
 

Meneth

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No-one starts with the traits, they are given over time, now by multiple events. Characters either gain them through education, or through actual combat. If you let the game run for a generation just about everyone will have them.
In PB this issue is solved by giving everyone with a martial education at the start of the campaign a duel trait of the same level. Works quite well.
 

jordarkelf

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In PB this issue is solved by giving everyone with a martial education at the start of the campaign a duel trait of the same level. Works quite well.
It's on the todo list for the next version (whenever I get around to it), but not a 1:1 mapping. In my mind they are distinct: Martial Education is theory, combat traits are practice.
 

Meneth

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It's on the todo list for the next version (whenever I get around to it), but not a 1:1 mapping. In my mind they are distinct: Martial Education is theory, combat traits are practice.
Oh definitely. That's why it only happens on campaign start, since having no combat traits around whatsoever would be rather strange.
 

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Is there anything to keep in mind/make sure is done for this mod to actually work at all? The last time I downloaded it, I never got a duel no matter what, though I've often got people getting in duels with each other at feasts. And in fact, having just tried it, it still doesn't work - none of the traits or events do at least.
 
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jordarkelf

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Is there anything to keep in mind/make sure is done for this mod to actually work at all? The last time I downloaded it, I never got a duel no matter what, though I've often got people getting in duels with each other at feasts. And in fact, having just tried it, it still doesn't work - none of the traits or events do at least.
Make sure it is ticked in the launcher. Also, if using other mods, you may run into incompatibility with on_actions which triggers the battle duels.
Beyond that, no idea what you may be doing wrong.
 

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I have a similar problem. I have the Duel Engine ticked in the launcher by default and always check it. Characters still have the traits, although at times they can be rare, and very, very rarely (for example, twice in 400 years) I'll get courtiers asking for duels, although they seem to be always against me. Other than that I've yet to see a in battle duel since I upgraded to 2.0. Here's the list of mods I use

Additional Objectives
Culture and Portait Revamp
Family Relations v5
High Kings, Consuls
Old Age
Syren Nicknames

I did think it was the Additional Objectives mod, since it changes the on_combat_pulse file. So I tried game without any mods except the Duel Engine, using the Stamford Bridge scenario as Harold. I got no duel from both battles against Harald and William. Then I tried the mod with no other mods or DLCs. I tried the same scenario 3 times and only got one duel against the Norweigns the second time I tried the scenario.

So it seems that the duels chance of happening has been reduced, which is better and realistic. It just makes it harder to test to see which mods and DLCs the duel engine will work with.
 

jordarkelf

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So it seems that the duels chance of happening has been reduced, which is better and realistic. It just makes it harder to test to see which mods and DLCs the duel engine will work with.
Yes I did dramatically turn down the chance of them happening in battles, and the others always were rare.

The next version (which should have been out by now, but I was lazy far too busy over the Xmas holiday) will be more clearly "active" as it will have an event at game start that allocates the new traits.
 

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It's on the todo list for the next version (whenever I get around to it), but not a 1:1 mapping. In my mind they are distinct: Martial Education is theory, combat traits are practice.

Despite the fact that the strategy employed in PB is not ideal for role-playing purposes, it is pretty integral to actually feeding the duel engine combatants with an appropriate combat trait in practice. Since the AI (and the player's own liege levy subunits as well as default leadership assignment for units) assigns combatants (leaders or subunit leaders, the only characters actually subject to an on_combat_pulse) from their court (incl. themselves) according to martial skill, the vast, vast majority of characters that could ever be subject to a battlefield duel must have a martial education anyway. PB uses the same rule as ClearCombat for subunits getting a commander: all the time, no matter what the vassal opinion (very important), so it's further obvious. I've recently collected the statistics to confirm this in PB. It's disheartening, as other factors should affect commander assignment; martial skill certainly isn't the only major factor affecting combat tactics / chances of winning a battle.

Ergo, if a character's combat trait is ever going to get used on the battlefield (obviously the main application), either they must be a player with the ability to manually assign themselves to unit command regardless of their relative martial, or they must have a high martial skill (and, thus, a martial education, assuming no serious fiddling in the ruler designer / console). I recommend that you take this into account with any planned initial combat trait assignment events.

Speaking of which, I've been scoping a project I've affectionately named ACTA (Adult Combat Trait Advancement) for PB. If I ever do it (currently just at the data-gathering stage for calibration, using large sets of time-series savegames and an instrumented version of PB which maintains counters for every combat pulse, random sampling of combat pulse, battle won, battle lost, battle won leader, battle lost leader, battlefield duel outcomes, and feast duel outcomes-- rather dry and moving slowly), then perhaps you and I should work to integrate its XP system and trait advancement directly into the duel engine. As it stands right now, my main blockers are the difficulty in getting a decently deterministic profile of those counter statistics per character per time (that is, with the goal of truly balancing advancement for the AI so that, above a certain percentile of combat activity, average AI eligible characters advance at a predictable rate toward their possible combat trait level-up which can be easily tuned and observed). Frankly, the statistics are killing me (way too many dimensions and samplings of already-sampled, dirty distributions, despite the hundreds and hundreds of years of collected, instrumented data), so I may just jump into the implementation somewhat blind so that I can measure higher-level statistics like actual combat trait advancement success, but either way, to keep to my standards at least, I'll still have to return to those lower-level statistics for verification and tuning rather immediately after a first-draft implementation.

FYI:

The implementation will be of scope mostly limited to plausibility. For example, it is only possible to climb so far up the ladder, relative to your starting point (combat trait at age 16), and XP points (measure of progress toward level-up) are earned at variable rates, modified by factors like age and an associated ambition being enabled, with a different base XP gain for each type of "combat activity," with things like successful duels being weighted much higher than the more frequent and less momentous impulses from participating in battles / leading armies. This will actually be accomplished with CK2's limited variable support (no arithmetic); a script will generate all the possible modifier combinations and generate the code to evaluate which of the possible combinations is true and then add a pre-calculated floating-point value to an eligible character's XP variable upon different types of "combat experience impulse" events. First draft slated to only include hooks from battle-related on_actions and duel engine output.

Again, it's still effectively just an idea. The nice thing about a "scoping phase" is that you can decide the project's not worthwhile or feasible after all. ;)
 

Meneth

Crusader Kings 3 Programmer
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Sounds like a very cool project zijlstark. I am very interested in seeing this further develop.

---

NEW VERSION OUT

No tournaments yet, sorry.
New in this version:

-Combat traits are now handed out in a new game within a day of starting to everyone aged 15 or up. Most people will get the starting trait "poor fighter", but people with good skills may still get a higher one.
-The VIET version now also takes VIET traits like agile and perceptive into account in handing out combat traits
-VIET traits effect on duels was overhauled
-The combat traits and the targeting trait should no longer be handed out at random to new characters, and are blocked from the customizer
-There is now a version compatible with CK2+, currently for version 2.06.3. Big thanks to minrog for doing the first version, I will try to keep it compatible in the future.
Would you happen to have the previous version at hand? It'd simplify me updating the integrated version in PB.
 
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