New capital for each institution?

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Basically a numbers question: Let's say you're playing in India, or some place far from Europe. In order to get the institutions quick, of course you develop your capital to 100% Renaissance, then it spreads from there.

My questions is; is it worth it to actually move the capital in order to do this again (more cheaply), when it comes to getting colonialism & printing press? I've noticed that if you're -for example- improving Delhi, just as it's real expensive to improve the province (again), you also get a real large institutional boost at the same time.

So is it always perfectly proportional to the investment, or is there any advantage to be gained by moving the capital to some nearby low-development plain/farmland, and doing it all over again...?

 

[CplKatie]

I have two different strategies when developing for an institution. First I develop around my capital, first I start with capital to spawn first one, then I do a neighboring same state province for another, this way they spread faster since spread usually scales to the development of the provinces. Another strategy I have is I do it to trade centers and other trade node modifier provinces. I never move my capital unless theres a really nice mountain/river province nearby worth having that super stronghold on.

 

[Zohtun]

Personally I just develop a god-capital for my god-emperor and call it a day.

 

[rinehime]

Developing for institutions takes about 2000 MP ignoring all modifiers but the total development modifier. Because development benefits scale linearly, it's slightly more beneficial to develop a low dev province than a high dev one, although not by much (like 1-4 dev total). Developing a "fresh" province besides a high dev province is also more beneficial for institution spread, as mentioned above. Of course picking something in favorable terrain helps as well.

EDIT: It's way more beneficial: The ending development is within 5 points for starting development from 3-20. Obviously, developing from 3-35 will give you a significantly bigger boost than developing from 20-40 and costs about the same, maybe even cheaper. So it's way more beneficial total-development-wise to spawn in a low-dev province.


There are also certain starting development levels that require fewer steps and are cheaper overall than just one dev greater or less due to the way the math works and getting just the exact number of points for the institution. There are a few posts with the math, but I think a starting dev of 7 is the cheapest.

As for whether moving your capital is worth it for the development reduction, I did the math once and it wasn't. It probably could be four some cases, but Admin is precious and there's a big hit for moving your capital from high to low dev.

 

[CplKatie]

Developing for institutions takes about 2000 MP ignoring all modifiers but the total development modifier. Because development benefits scale linearly, it's slightly more beneficial to develop a low dev province than a high dev one, although not by much (like 1-4 dev total). Developing a "fresh" province besides a high dev province is also more beneficial for institution spread, as mentioned above. Of course picking something in favorable terrain helps as well.

There are also certain starting development levels that require fewer steps and are cheaper overall than just one dev greater or less due to the way the math works and getting just the exact number of points for the institution. There are a few posts with the math, but I think a starting dev of 7 is the cheapest.

As for whether moving your capital is worth it for the development reduction, I did the math once and it wasn't. It probably could be four some cases, but Admin is precious and there's a big hit for moving your capital from high to low dev.

You also get a spread bonus for capital state provinces so its best to find a large state or a state with a central province to it so you can benefit the most from your spreads.

 

[rinehime]

You also get a spread bonus for capital state provinces so its best to find a large state or a state with a central province to it so you can benefit the most from your spreads.

You do? I don't see those listed on the wiki anywhere. There are a couple for the capital province itself, and for states themselves, but nothing special for the capital state.

 

[netherlink]

You do? I don't see those listed on the wiki anywhere. There are a couple for the capital province itself, and for states themselves, but nothing special for the capital state.

AFAIK you don't. He probably meant the state edict, which is "bonus" cheap in capital state?

 

[mag_zbc]

People have made equations for this already, and if I recall correctly it's cheapest to develop institutions in a province that starts with 8 or 12 development, without any modifiers - it's best to develop a province with Farmlands terrain (-5%) that produces cloth (-10%). Also keep Burghers estate loyal and influential.

 

[TenshiN]

I have two different strategies when developing for an institution. First I develop around my capital, first I start with capital to spawn first one, then I do a neighboring same state province for another, this way they spread faster since spread usually scales to the development of the provinces. Another strategy I have is I do it to trade centers and other trade node modifier provinces. I never move my capital unless theres a really nice mountain/river province nearby worth having that super stronghold on.

It doesn't have to be the same state, since you can just reassign the edic to whatever new state you choose. Just select a neighbouring province, so institutions spread between those institution-developed provinces fast.

 

[TenshiN]

Basically a numbers question: Let's say you're playing in India, or some place far from Europe. In order to get the institutions quick, of course you develop your capital to 100% Renaissance, then it spreads from there.

My questions is; is it worth it to actually move the capital in order to do this again (more cheaply), when it comes to getting colonialism & printing press? I've noticed that if you're -for example- improving Delhi, just as it's real expensive to improve the province (again), you also get a real large institutional boost at the same time.

So is it always perfectly proportional to the investment, or is there any advantage to be gained by moving the capital to some nearby low-development plain/farmland, and doing it all over again...?

Its more effective to develop a new province for each institution, giving it to burghers and activating the "improve development" state edict. Just, like i said above, better to have all the institution-developed provinces neighbouring eachother, so institutions spread fast between them.

 

[Lor360]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet, but your capital gets a reduction in development cost the more development you have overall as a country; so it might be a good idea to spawn institutions in other provinces untill youre big enough to get the maximum - 50% development reduction modifier for your capital.

 

[Ultima_Ratio]

It's definitely worth it if you can get a free capital move, but moving from a high-development capital to a low-dev one is (probably) too costly otherwise. That -50% development cost is nothing to scoff at, though.

 

[CplKatie]

You do? I don't see those listed on the wiki anywhere. There are a couple for the capital province itself, and for states themselves, but nothing special for the capital state.

When you mouse over your spread in province view it has an additional value for it being a capital state.

It doesn't have to be the same state, since you can just reassign the edic to whatever new state you choose. Just select a neighbouring province, so institutions spread between those institution-developed provinces fast.

I'm not referring to an edict, I don't have the newest two dlc's. There is a spread modifier for capital state. Atleast there is if you don't have those two dlc's.

 

[rinehime]

<snip>
My questions is; is it worth it to actually move the capital in order to do this again (more cheaply), when it comes to getting colonialism & printing press? I've noticed that if you're -for example- improving Delhi, just as it's real expensive to improve the province (again), you also get a real large institutional boost at the same time.

So is it always perfectly proportional to the investment, or is there any advantage to be gained by moving the capital to some nearby low-development plain/farmland, and doing it all over again...?

It's not exactly proportional to the investment. Each time you click the development button, the oldest non-present instituion increases by ~1/6 of the new development level (e.g. Going from level 11 to 12 gives +2% institution). To spawn an institution from 0-100% requires 601 cumulative development points. Costs scale as 3% per dev above 10, 6% per dev above 20, 9% per dev above 30 and so-on. So it's constant from 0-10, linear from 10-20, linear, but steeper from 20-30, etc.

Because development benefits scale linearly, it's slightly more beneficial to develop a low dev province than a high dev one, although not by much (like 1-4 dev total).

OK, this is totally wrong and I was confused when I wrote it (edited above). The ending development is within 5 points for starting development from 3-20. Obviously, developing from 3-35 will give you a significantly bigger boost than developing from 20-40 and costs about the same, maybe even cheaper. So it's more beneficial to spawn in a low-dev province.

People have made equations for this already, and if I recall correctly it's cheapest to develop institutions in a province that starts with 8 or 12 development, without any modifiers <snip>

There's a chart on the wiki, although it doesn't have total costs. The cheapest ones are the top end of each interval (7,10,13,16,18,20). The most expensive are the low end of the interval (3,8,11,14,17,19) If you go one-dev higher, you have click the same number of times (7-35 vs 8-36), but 35-36 costs a lot more than 7-8.

Its more effective to develop a new province for each institution, giving it to burghers and activating the "improve development" state edict. Just, like i said above, better to have all the institution-developed provinces neighbouring eachother, so institutions spread fast between them.

No need to give it to the Burghers, you get the -dev cost bonus nation wide. Province benefits for burghers, besides the autonomy reductions, are trade power and goods produced bonuses. Just make sure they're loyal and have > 60% influence.

When you mouse over your spread in province view it has an additional value for it being a capital state.
I'm not referring to an edict, I don't have the newest two dlc's. There is a spread modifier for capital state. Atleast there is if you don't have those two dlc's.

Huh... definitely not seeing that, at least for Renaissance or Colonialism. I have all DLC but Third Rome. I haven't checked the other institutions.

 

[CplKatie]

It's not exactly proportional to the investment. Each time you click the development button, the oldest non-present instituion increases by ~1/6 of the new development level (e.g. Going from level 11 to 12 gives +2% institution). To spawn an institution from 0-100% requires 601 cumulative development points. Costs scale as 3% per dev above 10, 6% per dev above 20, 9% per dev above 30 and so-on. So it's constant from 0-10, linear from 10-20, linear, but steeper from 20-30, etc.


OK, this is totally wrong and I was confused when I wrote it (edited above). The ending development is within 5 points for starting development from 3-20. Obviously, developing from 3-35 will give you a significantly bigger boost than developing from 20-40 and costs about the same, maybe even cheaper. So it's more beneficial to spawn in a low-dev province.


There's a chart on the wiki, although it doesn't have total costs. The cheapest ones are the top end of each interval (7,10,13,16,18,20). The most expensive are the low end of the interval (3,8,11,14,17,19) If you go one-dev higher, you have click the same number of times (7-35 vs 8-36), but 35-36 costs a lot more than 7-8.


No need to give it to the Burghers, you get the -dev cost bonus nation wide. Province benefits for burghers, besides the autonomy reductions, are trade power and goods produced bonuses. Just make sure they're loyal and have > 60% influence.

Huh... definitely not seeing that, at least for Renaissance or Colonialism. I have all DLC but Third Rome. I haven't checked the other institutions.

You are just looking in the wrong place. Its a general province spread modifier not an institution spread modifier.

 

[TenshiN]

It's not exactly proportional to the investment. Each time you click the development button, the oldest non-present instituion increases by ~1/6 of the new development level (e.g. Going from level 11 to 12 gives +2% institution). To spawn an institution from 0-100% requires 601 cumulative development points. Costs scale as 3% per dev above 10, 6% per dev above 20, 9% per dev above 30 and so-on. So it's constant from 0-10, linear from 10-20, linear, but steeper from 20-30, etc.


OK, this is totally wrong and I was confused when I wrote it (edited above). The ending development is within 5 points for starting development from 3-20. Obviously, developing from 3-35 will give you a significantly bigger boost than developing from 20-40 and costs about the same, maybe even cheaper. So it's more beneficial to spawn in a low-dev province.


There's a chart on the wiki, although it doesn't have total costs. The cheapest ones are the top end of each interval (7,10,13,16,18,20). The most expensive are the low end of the interval (3,8,11,14,17,19) If you go one-dev higher, you have click the same number of times (7-35 vs 8-36), but 35-36 costs a lot more than 7-8.


No need to give it to the Burghers, you get the -dev cost bonus nation wide. Province benefits for burghers, besides the autonomy reductions, are trade power and goods produced bonuses. Just make sure they're loyal and have > 60% influence.

Huh... definitely not seeing that, at least for Renaissance or Colonialism. I have all DLC but Third Rome. I haven't checked the other institutions.

Giving the province to the Burghers usually ensures they will get loyal enough to give you the -devcost, sooner or later.

 

[CplKatie]

the development cost modifier for burghers applies to all provinces not just the ones under their control.

 

[TheDutchWarlord]

Huh... definitely not seeing that, at least for Renaissance or Colonialism. I have all DLC but Third Rome. I haven't checked the other institutions.

I think what he may mean is the fact that a highly developed province will get an institution neighboring it faster due to said high development, when it spreads due to proximity. Thus when you develop your capital to 35ish Development for the first institution and you develop the next province over for the 2nd institution that first province will get a higher overall 'Nearby province has institution' spread modifier.

For example, in my current game I need the Enlightenment: My province Sofya has said institution and is neighboring 2 provinces that only get it from neighboring provinces. Vidin at 12 Development has a monthly tick from Sofya at 0.10, before spread modifiers, Nish the next province over (also bordering Sofya) has 8 development, and only get 0.06 spread per month from Sofya.

This would make it cheaper for someone to make sure they develop in a concentrated manner since a development high region will spread institutions between provinces faster then a low development region. Thus what you could do if playing Delhi; is develop Upper Doab for the first institution, Central Doab for the 2nd, Etawah for the 3rd and Delhi itself for a possible 4th institution if needed (if not, just use it for #3). These provinces all are connected to one another thus when spawning the institution you will get it spread in the region faster.

 

[Quaade]

Yes... wiki made a spreadsheet on it... it´s most effective to develop a province around 5-7 if I remember correctly... You won´t save much... but still... It´s a huge issue about how insti and dev works currently... you gain exactly nothing from spreading out deving a bit, other than faster growth later on... So you will have to focus in order to "trigger" the effect fastest... everything else is basically lost for that purpose

 

[CplKatie]

I think what he may mean is the fact that a highly developed province will get an institution neighboring it faster due to said high development, when it spreads due to proximity. Thus when you develop your capital to 35ish Development for the first institution and you develop the next province over for the 2nd institution that first province will get a higher overall 'Nearby province has institution' spread modifier.

For example, in my current game I need the Enlightenment: My province Sofya has said institution and is neighboring 2 provinces that only get it from neighboring provinces. Vidin at 12 Development has a monthly tick from Sofya at 0.10, before spread modifiers, Nish the next province over (also bordering Sofya) has 8 development, and only get 0.06 spread per month from Sofya.

This would make it cheaper for someone to make sure they develop in a concentrated manner since a development high region will spread institutions between provinces faster then a low development region. Thus what you could do if playing Delhi; is develop Upper Doab for the first institution, Central Doab for the 2nd, Etawah for the 3rd and Delhi itself for a possible 4th institution if needed (if not, just use it for #3). These provinces all are connected to one another thus when spawning the institution you will get it spread in the region faster.

look above at my screenshot at the tooltip for the mouse. There is a 5% bonus to spread modifier of institutions for the capital state.