New beta C.O.R.E. v0.8 ***Discussion Thread***

[frank2003]

Please, stop counting peas.
A German KG had about 100 bombers, a German JG had about 120 planes, but it doesn´t matter at all. An airunit represents a large number of planes (exceptions are the CAGs).

 

[Pkunzipper]

In the 100 planes an airgroup have about 10-20% are patrol planes, in addition you can consider that not every plane take off for a single sortie and maybe others can't find the target...

 

[Jedrek41]

AFAIK it's hardcoded, BTW I think it's realistic thatships suffer operational damage staying at sea and being in combat (even if against transports...)

It's escpecially realistic when you are retreating damaged battleship/submarine/curiser and it sinks because of a convoy of unarmed, unprotected ships...

 

[Tormodius]

Ok, so you mean UK becomes neutral to balance out the resource hunting and to prevent you from getting that huge british fleet for free?

I just tried the NeueOrdnungWest option and UK became an independant country. I lost England by that option, so I reloaded and chose total conquest. The war against the Allies ended, though. Now that leaves me with 630 IC and full resources. For a while.

Then the US (mighty) fleet came and destroyed mine. Perhaps NOW is a better idea than being resource hungry... having to run convoys to and from England and not being able to protect them. I really don't know....

 

[unmerged(14683)]

(...)I just tried the NeueOrdnungWest option and UK became an independant country.(...)

And you couldn't wait couple of days (less then week) for puppeting event, heh?

 

[Schatzi]

Supply distances can be a pain

First of all a huge thanks to the C.O.R.E team. - great work.

Normally, supply distances negative attack bonus, makes sense on smaller distances.But if you´re invading the US as Germany or vice versa, you´re stuck. There´s no way you can win a beach landing with -150% attack value.

O.k. so I thought I´d do the island hopping thing, and took the Bahamas (as in reducing the supply line length). Got myself a base and invaded Miami. Got lucky there, since I used my 15squad advanced tack bombers, although I had -150% attack value with my marines, I took the province.

One would think, that having set up base in Miami (+supply convoy), I could invade the rest of the states with no negative attack modifier. But still I get that huge negative modifier. I basically gave up the game after that. (Gave up my US game too)

Any thoughts on what I´m doing wrong or could be changed on the supply length modifier?

Ralf

 

[Tormodius]

And you couldn't wait couple of days (less then week) for puppeting event, heh?

Ouch!
And then that fleet would be at my side?

o

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Ouch!
And then that fleet would be at my side?

o

Also, there is healthy chance for Holland throwing the towel (part goes to you, part to Japan), as well as for capitulation of Belgium, SAF joining Axis or staying neutral and making Vichy one and only France.

That's why this event is not that easy to trigger.

 

[Tormodius]

Now I see... Looks like this is really a chain of events, not just one. And over some time after that trigger. And there are pretty awesome results. Nice!
Still got the savegame so I can test it out some more.

 

[ltccone]

Torch

I decided to give C.O.R.E another try after my disappointing first try.

Everything went much better this time around. I played a game as Germany and as the US. I made it to January '43 as the US and the summer of '42 as Germany.

I was working in Hohenfels, Germany last week and wasn't able to hook up to the Net and I didn't know .81 had come out. Now I'm going to have to re-start. Sigh.

The Torch event had BIG problems in both games. In the German game N. Spain was an ally and had captured Gibralter. My Germans had gome through the Balkans and Turkey to capture Egypt and the Middle East. For some reason the Torch event triggered despite the Med being an Axis lake. Three German Mech divisions and a paratroop division (backed up by TAC Air) slaughtered the French in NA. I easily took Algiers and captured a bunch of needed rubber. I'm not sure why this even triggered, except for maybe a Brit suicide invasion on Spanish Ceuta. But in any case there was no Anglo-US invasion of the Med. They counn't even SAIL into the Med.

It was even worse in my US game. As usual with the 1.06 Vichy event swarms of Free French troops were in Vichy territory. They captured almost all of Vichy. Then for some reason (because of the Fog of War I have no clue what happened) in the SPRING of 1940 the Torch event triggered. So this made things REALLY wierd. When the German conquered Vichy from France the provinces stayed German instead of reverting to Vichy. So Vichy only had the three provinces (that the FF never captured) that weren't even contiguous.

Then as the US I got shafted by the event that want me to set up a convoy to Cayenne that wasn't even the French capital anymore. Instead of wasting my resources I took the dissent hit.

Something is REALLY wrong with the Torch event.

I had other strange events as the US. I joined the Allies in March of '41 as I had 100% WE. A few months later I got the "Arsenal of Democracy" event which now made no sense. I did like the IC increase though. But the US should get the IC increase when they get into the war if this happens first.

I also don't think the US has enough manpower. After building some planes, a few ships, and about 50 divisions I only had 200 mp left. You can't sustain any kind of combat with that little bit of manpower. They do have to build an army from scratch.

 

[ltccone]

You have to ANNEX a country in the Western Hemisphere and use that as a base to get rid of the penalty. Pick on Haiti, they are the easiest.

 

[Schatzi]

heh, thx for the reply, but it´s late ´45 and every one is either on my side or got annexed by the US. Ok next time I´ll know and not let the whole South+Central America join me.

 

[OHgamer]

I decided to give C.O.R.E another try after my disappointing first try.

Everything went much better this time around. I played a game as Germany and as the US. I made it to January '43 as the US and the summer of '42 as Germany.

I was working in Hohenfels, Germany last week and wasn't able to hook up to the Net and I didn't know .81 had come out. Now I'm going to have to re-start. Sigh.

The Torch event had BIG problems in both games. In the German game N. Spain was an ally and had captured Gibralter. My Germans had gome through the Balkans and Turkey to capture Egypt and the Middle East. For some reason the Torch event triggered despite the Med being an Axis lake. Three German Mech divisions and a paratroop division (backed up by TAC Air) slaughtered the French in NA. I easily took Algiers and captured a bunch of needed rubber. I'm not sure why this even triggered, except for maybe a Brit suicide invasion on Spanish Ceuta. But in any case there was no Anglo-US invasion of the Med. They counn't even SAIL into the Med.

It was even worse in my US game. As usual with the 1.06 Vichy event swarms of Free French troops were in Vichy territory. They captured almost all of Vichy. Then for some reason (because of the Fog of War I have no clue what happened) in the SPRING of 1940 the Torch event triggered. So this made things REALLY wierd. When the German conquered Vichy from France the provinces stayed German instead of reverting to Vichy. So Vichy only had the three provinces (that the FF never captured) that weren't even contiguous.

Then as the US I got shafted by the event that want me to set up a convoy to Cayenne that wasn't even the French capital anymore. Instead of wasting my resources I took the dissent hit.

Something is REALLY wrong with the Torch event.

I had other strange events as the US. I joined the Allies in March of '41 as I had 100% WE. A few months later I got the "Arsenal of Democracy" event which now made no sense. I did like the IC increase though. But the US should get the IC increase when they get into the war if this happens first.

I also don't think the US has enough manpower. After building some planes, a few ships, and about 50 divisions I only had 200 mp left. You can't sustain any kind of combat with that little bit of manpower. They do have to build an army from scratch.

I spent the weekend rewoking the Vichy chain and now Vichy will start out as completely neutral with the events leading to a state of war with the Allies not firing for approx 30-60 days later (assuming historical results with Vichy being created by early July 40). Now almost all allied troops will dissolve if they get caught in Vichy territory. Working on giving Vichy some forces in S France in case any mopping up is needed. Also have made changes to some AIs so that premature Torch landings by the Commonwealth AIs will not happen.

On Torch, I think I know what happened but need you to confirm something. Was GER at war with VIC and seizing N Africa when this happened or had you chosen not to create Vichy and were fighting French forces in N Africa? I have just redone the triggers so that both FRA and VIC have to exist, but IIRC exists = VIC was a requirement for the Torch events to trigger, so I am guessing that it was the first scenario that happened. As the trigger was that if VIC exist and VIC no longer control Algiers and Oran, Torch fires. Again I think that this is a case of the human player coming up with ahistorical conditions I had not considered as I did not conceive of an Axis power at war with VIC and seizing N Africa, rather a Germany content with VIC holding N Africa as it was in real life. Will do some rewrites so that if the Axis seizes N Africa from VIC Torch does not fire.

 

[Wytchking]

Czech tank techs

What on earth happened to my Czech armour advances?

I'm playing as germany, and having defeated both France and Poland by 38(they DoW'ed me, and got soundly trashed) promtly absorbed Austria. Invigourated by all this fighting the nasty Czechs didn't want to hand over Sudetenland. It did not help them much, but I'm now in July 39 waiting for my free tech from Czecoslovakia. In wain it seems.

I've searched for the eventnumber everywhere, but it seems to have disappeared, for I can't fin it anywhere. Anybody know what happened to it or what eventnumber it is, so I can fire it manually?

 

[ltccone]

I spent the weekend rewoking the Vichy chain and now Vichy will start out as completely neutral with the events leading to a state of war with the Allies not firing for approx 30-60 days later (assuming historical results with Vichy being created by early July 40). Now almost all allied troops will dissolve if they get caught in Vichy territory. Working on giving Vichy some forces in S France in case any mopping up is needed. Also have made changes to some AIs so that premature Torch landings by the Commonwealth AIs will not happen.

On Torch, I think I know what happened but need you to confirm something. Was GER at war with VIC and seizing N Africa when this happened or had you chosen not to create Vichy and were fighting French forces in N Africa? I have just redone the triggers so that both FRA and VIC have to exist, but IIRC exists = VIC was a requirement for the Torch events to trigger, so I am guessing that it was the first scenario that happened. As the trigger was that if VIC exist and VIC no longer control Algiers and Oran, Torch fires. Again I think that this is a case of the human player coming up with ahistorical conditions I had not considered as I did not conceive of an Axis power at war with VIC and seizing N Africa, rather a Germany content with VIC holding N Africa as it was in real life. Will do some rewrites so that if the Axis seizes N Africa from VIC Torch does not fire.

When I was playing Germany I set up Vichy and I was not at war with them. There were no Allied forces anywhere in the Med (except Ceuta) when Torch triggered. I had annexed Egypt and destroyed all British north of Ethiopia. My Syrian and Lebanese Allies had helped my invasion and annexation of Iraq and Saudi Arabia. I occupied the rest of the Middle East. Vichy still held NA and the Spanish held Ceuta when the event triggered. The Brits were launching an amphib attack on Ceuta (which was repulsed) when the event triggered.

When I was playing the US before Torch triggered the Brits had overrun all of NA from Vichy. They did this VERY quickly with amphib assaults. They had accomplished this even before the Germans were able to get rid of the FF from what should have been Vichy territory.

I hope this helps...

 

[unmerged(17767)]

Perhaps NOW is a better idea than being resource hungry... having to run convoys to and from England and not being able to protect them. I really don't know....

A bit off topic but my favorite tactic for protecting my convoys to the UK, as Germany, is a whole bunch of naval bombers. They'll chew up a fleet in very little time and they're much faster and cheaper than building your own navy.

 

[OHgamer]

When I was playing Germany I set up Vichy and I was not at war with them. There were no Allied forces anywhere in the Med (except Ceuta) when Torch triggered. I had annexed Egypt and destroyed all British north of Ethiopia. My Syrian and Lebanese Allies had helped my invasion and annexation of Iraq and Saudi Arabia. I occupied the rest of the Middle East. Vichy still held NA and the Spanish held Ceuta when the event triggered. The Brits were launching an amphib attack on Ceuta (which was repulsed) when the event triggered.

When I was playing the US before Torch triggered the Brits had overrun all of NA from Vichy. They did this VERY quickly with amphib assaults. They had accomplished this even before the Germans were able to get rid of the FF from what should have been Vichy territory.

I hope this helps...

Dunno why it would have triggered in your first game - the trigger to tip Morocco is Casablanca taken over from VIC, not Ceuta taken from SPA, and Algeria tips when Algiers falls. Very odd.

Second scenario should not happen in the future with the AI changes I have made. Once included, the Commonwealth AIs should not attack N Africa at all within the first 2 years, tho once the USA is in the war Torch can happen as soon as US AI decides to invade.

 

[ltccone]

Dunno why it would have triggered in your first game - the trigger to tip Morocco is Casablanca taken over from VIC, not Ceuta taken from SPA, and Algeria tips when Algiers falls. Very odd.

The Brits might have captured Casablanca. I can't remember. They were defeated at Ceuta by the Spanish and never captured it. One minute everything E of Ceuta was Vichy, the next it was French... Algiers wasn't captured, that's for sure. The Allies couldn't even GET to Algiers.

I don't think JUST the capture of Casablanca should be a trigger for Torch. It is not even in the Med. Giving France all of that territory, troops, and moving the capital to Algiers shouldn't happen because of the capture of an Atlantic province. Wouldn't it make more sense if Casablanca AND Algiers needed to be captured as happened in RL?

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

A bit off topic but my favorite tactic for protecting my convoys to the UK, as Germany, is a whole bunch of naval bombers. They'll chew up a fleet in very little time and they're much faster and cheaper than building your own navy.

Definately a technique. Navy's main purpose for me is cutting off fleets from entering the med.; I post huge fleets off gibraltar and the suez.

Or when you are going on the offensive and protecting YOUR troop transports.

- MVSN

 

[Der Bismarck]

How about the military ships lose only organization but not strength when combatting convoys. I think that this would be more realistic.