New beta C.O.R.E. v0.8 ***Discussion Thread***

[unmerged(15159)]

Ok, I have figured out what causes this problem and posted in the Bugs thread.

The UK starts the scenario with both these techs in the research queue. However the techs both cost 40 IC instead of 12 as defined in the UK.inc file.

If you leave these techs in the queue then you get the problem I described above. I moved them both to the top of the queue and they stole all my ICs.

 

[Crazyhorse]

I just tested it what you said in your first post. Only I removed first all the techs and then started them so I didn't get the bug.

But the 40 IC cost is still the vanilla 1.06 cost as I recall. Someone forgot to change this for the ongoing research.

 

[unmerged(18237)]

Thank you (hangs head in embarrasent) I found out when I started the game and then went to the kitchen for a cup of tea that when I came back the game had loaded properly.

I just had not waited long enough!!!!!!

How did I get so impatient when in years gone buy I was happy to wait 30mins to load a copy of Elite (on an audio cassette tape) onto my Commodore 64 only to cheerfully restart after a crash from the dreaded 'azimuth failure'.

How did I get to this place?????????

So you discovered the "I'll start the game and get myself a cup of coffee/tea before it finished loading" function. Yeah it was added in the 0.7 version after Starbucks and Lipton made a big contribution to the mod developers

/Frank2u

 

[ltccone]

What is the difference between CORE and Vanilla HOI?

I've heard a lot of good things about CORE. Is there some documentation somewhere that details the difference between CORE and vanilla HOI?

 

[Ghost_dk]

I've heard a lot of good things about CORE. Is there some documentation somewhere that details the difference between CORE and vanilla HOI?

its a little bit difficult to describe in just a few words, but if you wish you can take a look at this site:

http://hoi.coremod.org/index2.htm

It holds a lot of information in regards to the intentions of CORE and how far we have gotten to achieving it.

You will also be able to download the mod from this site.

Have fun and thank you for asking.

Ghost_dk

 

[unmerged(3221)]

I'm having a little problem playing as Japan: resources. Ledger says I'm making hundreds of units of Coal, Steel, etc a day but very little actually makes it back to my stockpile. Playing on Hard/Agressive, Jan 1938, there is only 1 of Rubber and Oil on the WM(Steel and Coal, both 9999). My economy is down to 46 out of 300 IC. But anyway, how do I figure out how much I'm REALLY making a day?

PS: I have all the convoys set up, annexed Manchuria to try and change the situation(no help there, lol).

The ledger pg 2 is simply NOT ACCURATE. It does not make any adjustments for difficulty levels, for ministers, for the resources percentages that you get in 1.06, etc. Ignore it.

I did a test for Norway and Switzerland in 1.06. Both the IC and the resources change by about 10% for each difficulty level. The ledger, however, is the same for all five difficulty levels. The main screen resources and IC are different from the ledger except when playing at normal. And the ledger does not show the effect of any ministers that increase IC even on normal levels.

 

[Pkunzipper]

:rofl:

 

[MateDow]

Differences

Well, here are some of the most obvious differences...

Tech Trees- The tech trees in CORE are far more detailed than the tech trees that are included with Vanilla HoI. Part of this is due to a greater variety in units, but part of it is the shear amount of detail that is available.

Unit Variety- There are a greater variety of units available within CORE. Although we are constrained by the limits on the number of types of units, we have taken full advantage of the number of models which are allowed by the game. IRC, there are over 40 different models of tanks which are available for construction and 14 different models of battleships alone. I think (it has been awhile since I looked at Vanilla) there are only about 8 models of tanks and 3 models for battleships in Vanilla.

Events- At latest count we have over 3000 events which have been added for CORE. This is COREs largest accomplishment. These events are all in addition to the events which come with HoI. There are events for every country in the world. If you want to play small countries like Bhutan, Siam or Panama, there are events which will effect you.

Orders of Battle- Orders of Battle (OOB) is the starting forces for a country. Because of the greater variety in the models used for the game, we can make each countries military forces as accurate as possible. If you look at a country like Brazil, you will see the units which made that country's military unique. She still has her WW1 era battleships and cruisers and smaller army.

New Countries- We have an independent Egypt as well as other countries which are not in Vanilla HoI. There are events which create independent countries in the Pyrennies (sp?) in Spain. We have events which will create an independent South Korea as well as North Korea.

Well, I hope that this wets your appitite for downloading CORE. I think that once you have it on your computer, you will never go back to Vanilla HoI. MDow

 

[unmerged(1345)]

Just a quick note:

Starting playing with CORE and I am very favourably pleased with what I saw. I like the new counters/events/ etc.

Please keep up the great work! Many fans out there truly appreciate all your hard work

 

[ltccone]

Well, here are some of the most obvious differences...

Tech Trees- The tech trees in CORE are far more detailed than the tech trees that are included with Vanilla HoI. Part of this is due to a greater variety in units, but part of it is the shear amount of detail that is available.

Unit Variety- There are a greater variety of units available within CORE. Although we are constrained by the limits on the number of types of units, we have taken full advantage of the number of models which are allowed by the game. IRC, there are over 40 different models of tanks which are available for construction and 14 different models of battleships alone. I think (it has been awhile since I looked at Vanilla) there are only about 8 models of tanks and 3 models for battleships in Vanilla.

Events- At latest count we have over 3000 events which have been added for CORE. This is COREs largest accomplishment. These events are all in addition to the events which come with HoI. There are events for every country in the world. If you want to play small countries like Bhutan, Siam or Panama, there are events which will effect you.

Orders of Battle- Orders of Battle (OOB) is the starting forces for a country. Because of the greater variety in the models used for the game, we can make each countries military forces as accurate as possible. If you look at a country like Brazil, you will see the units which made that country's military unique. She still has her WW1 era battleships and cruisers and smaller army.

New Countries- We have an independent Egypt as well as other countries which are not in Vanilla HoI. There are events which create independent countries in the Pyrennies (sp?) in Spain. We have events which will create an independent South Korea as well as North Korea.

Well, I hope that this wets your appitite for downloading CORE. I think that once you have it on your computer, you will never go back to Vanilla HoI. MDow

Thanks! I've downloaded it and will give it a try tonight.

 

[unmerged(23025)]

The ahistorical US elections are dissent triggered now instead of random as was originally in the Paradox events. The 36 election, for example, has a dissent level of 10% to trigger the election with Landon as the A choice. We decided awhile ago that the purely random factor just wasn't cutting it, especially as it seemd to come up far more than it should. The whole US election scheme may get expanded upon to include the various nominating conventions (Democrat and Republican, and maybe others), and all the resultant possibilities from those (mainly for the Republicans, but the democrats as well if FDR loses an election along the way). But that's a future project, as I have yet to finish getting all the research and such done to make the chains possible.

JRaup,

Thanks for the feedback.

Looks like you're heavily involved in the US Election events.

I'm curious, why was 10% chosen as the dissent level to trigger the alternative 1936 US election outcome. That number seems low to me, but I may not understand what the dissent actually represents in the game. My recollection is that Roosevelt scored an overwhelming victory over Landon in 36, garnering over 60% of the popular vote, and all but a very few electoral votes. In fact, I'm not sure Landon even carried his home state.

I would guess that an anti-Roosevelt sentiment, necessary to defeat him in 36, would be represented by a number more in line with 20 percent dissent, game terms.

From a CORE perspective, I am concerned that the AI will routinely have a US dissent level greater than 10 percent in 1936, even if managing the country fairly well. Do you know if CORE 80 testing has shown that Roosevelt is being elected at least a majority of the time by an AI controlled US? In my very limited experience, Landon seems to be the routine choice.

Thanks,

Terhune

 

[MateDow]

JRaup,

Thanks for the feedback.

Looks like you're heavily involved in the US Election events.

I'm curious, why was 10% chosen as the dissent level to trigger the alternative 1936 US election outcome. That number seems low to me, but I may not understand what the dissent actually represents in the game. My recollection is that Roosevelt scored an overwhelming victory over Landon in 36, garnering over 60% of the popular vote, and all but a very few electoral votes. In fact, I'm not sure Landon even carried his home state.

I would guess that an anti-Roosevelt sentiment, necessary to defeat him in 36, would be represented by a number more in line with 20 percent dissent, game terms.

From a CORE perspective, I am concerned that the AI will routinely have a US dissent level greater than 10 percent in 1936, even if managing the country fairly well. Do you know if CORE 80 testing has shown that Roosevelt is being elected at least a majority of the time by an AI controlled US? In my very limited experience, Landon seems to be the routine choice.

Thanks,

Terhune

I seem to remeber hearing somewhere that the election of the president was decided by 20% of the population. You figure that 40% is going to vote Republican and 40% is going to vote Democratic reguardless of the person that is running. That leaves the remaining 20% to really decide the election by going back and forth. If you accept that, if 10% of the population swayed from one side to the other, it would swing the election.

I haven't seen anything that indicates that Landon is being elected an unproportional amount, but I haven't been watching for it. If you run some hands off games as Cuba (10 should do) and get some stats it would be a great help. MDow

 

[Steel]

FWIW the AI also puts very high emphasis on reducing dissent so barring event effects with high dissent results it should be doing ok.

 

[Phaedrus]

US initial trades

The US initial trades are very costly, and the economy does great with no trades at all. The oil surplus is enough to keep going to 99,999 oil and convert all the rubber needed.

What was the idea of adding them? Feed the market with oil? Limit US growth? Doesn't the AI remove trades?

PS. As always, great job.

 

[Pkunzipper]

Just a quick note:

Starting playing with CORE and I am very favourably pleased with what I saw. I like the new counters/events/ etc.

Please keep up the great work! Many fans out there truly appreciate all your hard work

Happy you like it!

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Hi Guys,

I love the new Core - so much more than just an adaptability fix for 1.06 - all the New Order West events look great!

I've got one *big* problem though, and I'm wondering if others have the same bug. I'm Germany, played 1936-39 as usual, war with Poland in September, when I notice that whenever I cross a river, I get a -69% penalty!

It doesn't seem to make sense - so, for instance, I have 24 divs attacking Warsaw, and in the list of penalties there's "Urban -24%, Rivercrossing -69%" and a bunch of other things. It doesn't seem to make sense to have this much of a penalty for crossing rivers?

Funny thing is, I went and saved the game, and then opened up the save file. All my troops have much more sensible river crossing penalties - around the -20 mark - similar to other countries troops.

So I reload the game, this time as another country (Republican Spain, still fighting Nat Spain) and the problem's still there - my troops attacking across a river get this debilitating 69% penalty!

And, looking at the other wars around the world, such as Japan -v- Nat. China - I see that rivers seem to be an almost impenetrable barrier to expansion. Japan is only making progress by doing amphibious landings around the rivers.

I've no idea what can be wrong. The problem has only come up with 0.8 Core - I removed all old Core files before doing an install. When I open save files from a vanilla 1.06 game, and compare them to save files from a 0.8 Core game, the river_attack and river_defense bonuses for my troops seem pretty similar - nothing that would suggest the -69% penalty.

Anyone having the same problem? Can anyone help me solve this one?

Ozy

Everything is all right, initial 70% river penalty is intended thing. It means, that your divisions attacking acrosst the river got roughly 30% attack power of the normal division.

Develop technologies that rise river attack, use leaders with Engineer trait, and cross the river in places, where there is good terrain to create beachhead (like neighbouring province). And use overwhelming force + planes.

Mayor rivers were always hard to cross for advancing troops when defended properly.

 

[JRaup]

JRaup,

Thanks for the feedback.

Looks like you're heavily involved in the US Election events.

I'm curious, why was 10% chosen as the dissent level to trigger the alternative 1936 US election outcome. That number seems low to me, but I may not understand what the dissent actually represents in the game. My recollection is that Roosevelt scored an overwhelming victory over Landon in 36, garnering over 60% of the popular vote, and all but a very few electoral votes. In fact, I'm not sure Landon even carried his home state.

I would guess that an anti-Roosevelt sentiment, necessary to defeat him in 36, would be represented by a number more in line with 20 percent dissent, game terms.

From a CORE perspective, I am concerned that the AI will routinely have a US dissent level greater than 10 percent in 1936, even if managing the country fairly well. Do you know if CORE 80 testing has shown that Roosevelt is being elected at least a majority of the time by an AI controlled US? In my very limited experience, Landon seems to be the routine choice.

Thanks,

Terhune

Since 1.05c, the AI has become rather good at reducing and handling dissent. As such, a dissent level of 10% is pretty significant for the USA, give the number of available IC to use. And as MateDOW pointed out, that 10% swing can really mess with an election. Even with that ahistorical possibility arising, there's still a chance (5% in this case) that FDR will be returned anyway. So in the grand scheme of things, FDR has an overwhelming chance of being returned in 1936.

So far in my games (testing and actual play), Landon has been elected once in about 12 goes. That sounds about right to me as to frequency. I've seen the ahistorical 1940 election more than the 36 in 0.8, which can actually help in that if Wilkie gets elected, US WE goes up, and they almost always then jon the Allies (a year early, but that's OK).

 

[JRaup]

So you discovered the "I'll start the game and get myself a cup of coffee/tea before it finished loading" function. Yeah it was added in the 0.7 version after Starbucks and Lipton made a big contribution to the mod developers

/Frank2u

They did??? I'm gonna have to have words with who ever's been holding out on me. :rofl:

 

[Ozy]

Everything is all right, initial 70% river penalty is intended thing. It means, that your divisions attacking acrosst the river got roughly 30% attack power of the normal division.

Develop technologies that rise river attack, use leaders with Engineer trait, and cross the river in places, where there is good terrain to create beachhead (like neighbouring province). And use overwhelming force + planes.

Mayor rivers were always hard to cross for advancing troops when defended properly.

Oh, and there's me thinking I'd worked it out last night! - In the vanilla HoI 1.06 there seems to be a -50% penalty to all river crossings. But in vanilla HoI this is compensated for because the key techs that raise the river_attack variable (mostly in the infantry tech tree) do so by +25 / +30 - "Portable Military Bridge" is one, and there's another big one too - so the effect is that with these techs your infantry, marines and bergsjaeger can cancel out the -50 hard-coded penalty.

But none of the Core techs come close - Portable Military Bridge gives just a +5 boost to efficiency. It led me to think that the hard-coded -50% penalty in 1.06 had been overlooked?

I mean, I agree that crossing major rivers should be a very difficult thing to do, but with a -70% initial penalty, that's about 3 times more of a penalty than for an amphibious assault, or an attack on urban terrain?!? Rivers should be difficult, but not a totally impenetrable barrier, imho.

Other than that, I think Core 0.8 is great, I'm suffering from total lack of sleep!

 

[Prussian_Nerd]

C.O.R.E. v.0.8 FAQ Question

Can someone please elaborate on this section of the FAQ?

"Q, There was a new picture pack released in November, should I use that with C.O.R.E. ?
A. It's not needed, however if you want the leader pictures you can add them."

That answer doens't clarify 100% to me wether the Leader/propaganda Pick-Pack was included or not in CORE 0.8, let alone how much of it. Does it imply that if I don't install the Pick-Pack, which some people here say it's supposedly included in CORE 0.8, then I won't have the leader pictures? Are missing out on something, doesn'T matter how much of a small detail it may be, if we don't install the Pick-Pack on the newest CORE version?