New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.7 ***Discussion Thread***

[unmerged(25663)]

I just went through the Soviet OOB and I didn't find any duplicate ships. Here is what I did find and it might explain your confusion...

Protected cruiser (actually a fast minelayer) Marti assigned to the Severnyi Flot (Northern Fleet?) in Murmansk at the beginning of the game.

Dreadnaught battleship Marat assigned to the Baltiiskii Flot (Baltic Fleet) in Lenningrad at the beginning of the game.

I would guess that you just glanced and the similarity of the name made them look the same. Just a guess though. I hope that answers your query. MDow

nope, it is quite clear in the config. One is ship #5016 in the severnyi fleet the other is id#5072 in the mine support squadron. Exact same type and name. check again.

 

[unmerged(25663)]

Notes on some leader problems

Two quick questions.

Why is Gambara(italian general) a logistic wizard/Defensive doctrine when he fights for spain and just a logistic wizard anywhere else?

Why do we still have Berzarin as a Offensive doctrine Pilot? (leader #10344)

 

[Indiana]

Quick Question: (maybe an old known bug)
---Why is it that Carrier planes do not land back on the CVs after combat in their sea zone? It would be nice if they landed back on the CV so they could have their 'org' start increasing after fights. Currently I have to leave the sea zone and come back for them to land

---Also...Does anyone know if the 1.06 patch will fix the enemy being able to land troops on land where your Fleet is in that zone? Or even Island hop? Seems to me that Troops landings shouldn't be able to take place until Enemy ships are out of that zone...not including enemy transports.

 

[MateDow]

nope, it is quite clear in the config. One is ship #5016 in the severnyi fleet the other is id#5072 in the mine support squadron. Exact same type and name. check again.

Sorry about that. I was looking in the wrong file. It will be fixed for 0.72. MDow

 

[ArmdChair]

Matedow,

Just wanted to drop you a quick line to rave about your work with version 0.71. I have just upgraded (due to an ongoing game I wanted to "finish") and am thrilled by the work that I have seen so far.

Just opening the game as the USA, I noticed right off the changes to the US Fleet and to the Transports. That was inspired detail work, way beyond any normal call to duty. There is stuff in there that I'm sure I haven't even discovered yet, which makes this even more of a treasure.

I see in your contributions a love for your subject matter, and I thank you on behalf of all C.O.R.E. players for sharing it with the rest of us.

Later,

ArmdChair

 

[Chaplain]

A solution for the amphib situation?

Hi fellas,

Just brainstorming through some realism issues for CORE. Keeping in mind the fact that the largest amphibious invasion of the war only involved 8 divisions, what if we made naval transports as prohibitively expensive as paratrooper transports?

I think this would moderate the amphibious portion of the game - no more invasions by 15 divisions in 1939. Now, perhaps this would make the Atlantic Wall too easy to defend ... ? But on the other hand, there were NEVER enough amphibious craft available (even for the USA!) to land 15-20 divisions at once.

The solution is neatly implemented in WiF because you have a separation between amphibs and transports, but I guess that's not possible in HOI ... ?

Thoughts?

 

[boromir]

Hi fellas,

Just brainstorming through some realism issues for CORE. Keeping in mind the fact that the largest amphibious invasion of the war only involved 8 divisions, what if we made naval transports as prohibitively expensive as paratrooper transports?

I think this would moderate the amphibious portion of the game - no more invasions by 15 divisions in 1939. Now, perhaps this would make the Atlantic Wall too easy to defend ... ? But on the other hand, there were NEVER enough amphibious craft available (even for the USA!) to land 15-20 divisions at once.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I was hoping to see something like that - make transports much more expensive, with different costs for the AI (so as not to cripple it even further) and human players.

 

[MateDow]

Hi fellas,

Just brainstorming through some realism issues for CORE. Keeping in mind the fact that the largest amphibious invasion of the war only involved 8 divisions, what if we made naval transports as prohibitively expensive as paratrooper transports?

I think this would moderate the amphibious portion of the game - no more invasions by 15 divisions in 1939. Now, perhaps this would make the Atlantic Wall too easy to defend ... ? But on the other hand, there were NEVER enough amphibious craft available (even for the USA!) to land 15-20 divisions at once.

The solution is neatly implemented in WiF because you have a separation between amphibs and transports, but I guess that's not possible in HOI ... ?

Thoughts?

Part of me agrees with you. I am not sure the problem is in the cost of the transports. I think the problem is in the way that HoI simulates amphibious assaults. If the game allowed the divisions involved to come ashore in a measured fashion that would be realistic. Right now you can land 10 divsions across the beach and have them enter combat simultaneously. Rather than the first division coming ashore and repulsing the counter-attack and then additional troops following on. On the other hand, the defender doesn't have to bring in troops from other locations to stop the invasion. There were four German divisions in the area around Normandy IRC. The secret to the Allied success was the fact that the Germans couldn't get those divisions from their inland positions to attack the troops on the beach due to Allied airpower. An invading player has to be able to put massive amounts of troops ashore to have a chance of making any sucessful invasion against a defended point.

If we increase the cost of transports and make them prohibitively expensive that will play hell with the ability to replenish losses from convoy operations. The only thing that air transports are used for are transporting paratroopers. Naval transports are a little more complex due to the necessity for them to carry supplies and resources. The AI has enough trouble assigning ships to this duty now which would be magnified if we increased the cost substantially. Just my opinion. MDow

 

[Msbon]

Possible event prob.

Ok, in early 1939 after the incidents at kholan ghol(?) and nomohan village japan went with declare war on soviet union. but when i look on the diplomacy screen japan and soviet union are still peacefull. hopefully i'm not making an a-- out of myself here.

 

[jdrou]

---Also...Does anyone know if the 1.06 patch will fix the enemy being able to land troops on land where your Fleet is in that zone? Or even Island hop? Seems to me that Troops landings shouldn't be able to take place until Enemy ships are out of that zone...not including enemy transports.

Not sure what you mean; I don't think I've seen landings through a defended sea zone without a sea battle first.

Regarding island-hopping from the 1.06 Progress thread:
- Straits-blocking code, and lots of land-connections in pacific now count as amph-assaults and can be blocked by fleets.

 

[O'Donnel Aboo!]

Not sure what you mean; I don't think I've seen landings through a defended sea zone without a sea battle first.

AI most definitely drops landings past defended sea zones. There is a LONG discussion about this int eh general forum. Making transports unloading troops immediately visible, regardless of tech would solve this.

 

[ashbery76]

The republicans won the spanish civil war during my game with me playing germany,anyway, after the republicans turned commie, i decided to liberate spain.The republicans were beat easy and then i installed a puppet gov(franco), but they stayed republicans , should there be an event to reinstall nationalist spain when they are puppeted by germany?

 

[unmerged(14683)]

The republicans won the spanish civil war during my game with me playing germany,anyway, after the republicans turned commie, i decided to liberate spain.The republicans were beat easy and then i installed a puppet gov(franco), but they stayed republicans , should there be an event to reinstall nationalist spain when they are puppeted by germany?

Actually that's one of the things that is supposed to be corrected in the next HoI patch (1.06), so we wait for it, before we make any solutions.

Notice, that following this line of reasoning, we should make events for every country that is possible to liberate for at least every mayor liberator... That's quite large number of events.

 

[Angelos]

The republicans won the spanish civil war during my game with me playing germany,anyway, after the republicans turned commie, i decided to liberate spain.

"Liberate"? brrrrrr .But,aside from that,he is right.For example as the CCCP you should be able to create a DDR puppet.So,when is the patch expected?Any ideas?

 

[saintsup]

Diplomacy question:

Im my several games, yougoslavia and nationalist Spain are consistantly joining Axis whereas in history it was not the case.

BUT it's a good strategy for Axis AI to try to get those countries in the Alliance (especially Nat Spain).

So what to do ? Is that a CORE design choice ?

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Diplomacy question:

Im my several games, yougoslavia and nationalist Spain are consistantly joining Axis whereas in history it was not the case.

BUT it's a good strategy for Axis AI to try to get those countries in the Alliance (especially Nat Spain).

So what to do ? Is that a CORE design choice ?

Modding possibilities in diplomatic part of the game are very limited - Axis AI is good in taking Spain and Yugoslavia on it's side in vanilla HoI as well.

Of course, we can remove those countries from the influence block of German AI, but that not solves situation at all - human player can still attract Spain and Yugoslavia to his alliance, and limiting number of countries to influence results in stronger influence per each country that was left on the list.

Back to the question:
I didn't notice Spain joining Axis too many times... and in case of Yugoslavia situation is handled by events. In fact, that's what happened historically - Yugoslavia joined Axis in 1941, but then goverment was overthrown and Germans intervened.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

Mech inf activation via Mechanized HQ research should be changed to needing level 6 Advanced Tanks theory level instead of level 3 Basic Tanks. This would also require Quality Control for many applications (which would be unchanged). Both of these levels can be reached by a major country in early 1941.

The prime requirements for Mech Inf Div should be a sufficient number of squad carrying halftracks for the infantry plus a reliable self propelled tank destroyer AFV with at least a 75 gun. Historically it wasn't until 1942 or 1943 that anything like a Mech Inf Division was on the field. Germany started producing decent AFV tank destroyers in quantity around 1942. The USA switched from using towed AT guns to self propelled tank destroyers only after war experience in Torch in late 1942. The USA only started production of it's standard M3 halftrack in Sep 1940 but in CORE 0.71 the USA has Mech Inf div attacking in France as early as July 1940. This is obviously way too early.

Since Advanced Tanks level 6 can be reached by around Feb 1941, requiring this for Mech HQ research would put Mech Inf div on the field in late 1941. This is still much earlier than they were available historically, so this isn't asking for much. Mech inf also benefit from the Advanced Light Tank Recon in level 6 and the heavy assault guns (both of which need quality
control), so Level 6 is a good place to group the Mech inf advances. Advanced tanks level 6 is described as a switch from defensive infantry units to mechanized armoured units so putting mech inf here makes sense rather than having them appear much earlier.

I tested this out with a 'hands off' game and the USA AI put a mech inf div on the field in July 1942. Germany could build them too though the German AI skipped researching Quality Control.

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Mech inf activation via Mechanized HQ research should be changed to needing level 6 Advanced Tanks theory level instead of level 3 Basic Tanks. This would also require Quality Control for many applications (which would be unchanged). Both of these levels can be reached by a major country in early 1941.

The prime requirements for Mech Inf Div should be a sufficient number of squad carrying halftracks for the infantry plus a reliable self propelled tank destroyer AFV with at least a 75 gun. Historically it wasn't until 1942 or 1943 that anything like a Mech Inf Division was on the field. Germany started producing decent AFV tank destroyers in quantity around 1942. The USA switched from using towed AT guns to self propelled tank destroyers only after war experience in Torch in late 1942. The USA only started production of it's standard M3 halftrack in Sep 1940 but in CORE 0.71 the USA has Mech Inf div attacking in France as early as July 1940. This is obviously way too early.

Since Advanced Tanks level 6 can be reached by around Feb 1941, requiring this for Mech HQ research would put Mech Inf div on the field in late 1941. This is still much earlier than they were available historically, so this isn't asking for much. Mech inf also benefit from the Advanced Light Tank Recon in level 6 and the heavy assault guns (both of which need quality
control), so Level 6 is a good place to group the Mech inf advances. Advanced tanks level 6 is described as a switch from defensive infantry units to mechanized armoured units so putting mech inf here makes sense rather than having them appear much earlier.

I tested this out with a 'hands off' game and the USA AI put a mech inf div on the field in July 1942. Germany could build them too though the German AI skipped researching Quality Control.

Cooper has test tech files for Land and Air Doctrines halving the cost and doubling the time (approx.) being tested now. Good ideas above though.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Mech inf activation via Mechanized HQ research should be changed to needing level 6 Advanced Tanks theory level instead of level 3 Basic Tanks. This would also require Quality Control for many applications (which would be unchanged). Both of these levels can be reached by a major country in early 1941. (...)

Land doctrines tech tree will be redesigned soon (cost/time ratio change is only first step), later activation of the mech units is on the "to do" list.

 

[Chaplain]

Is 0.72 on hold pending 1.06?