Do you want model deactivation removed in the MP version? Again it will weaken the AI.Fiendix said:
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Steel said:
But in multiplayer the AI is insignificant. It plays no role. None. Zilch. Nada.
Basically it works this way:
Good for SP = Bad for MP
Good for MP = Bad for SP
So if you want to do an MP version, you basically have to redesign a whole chunk.
Steel said:
I was always against deactivation as you should be able to build what you want. Its a pity to hear that the AI will be even weaker but I think most of the mps can roll over the ai no matter what. I mean I had a battle against 4 units under 1 mg or a lg -- if the aAI cant be taught about the -75% issue then there is no hope IMO for the AI.
However if you want to let the russians have stronger tanks than the germans then leave it how it is but make the advanced only be gainable with some late war doctrine. Then we can leave quality control and russian industry as it is.
I will have the continuation of the mp game today if we manage to edit the war score as boromir suggested as the constant CTD & retriggers after reload are way too much for my nerves and let you know how it looks when we put the armies on the front.
F
Fiendix said:
Variation would be nice. AI is meaningless in MP - the strongest parties are usually taken anyway, and the AI plays as if it was not there. But the 2 gold tank tech advantage for the Russians should be dropped to a 1 gold tech lead instead.
point of order
It seems to me that there ought not be a great deal of effort poured into the AI at this point, for several reasons:
1) CORE isn't finished. How can you write an AI for a game that isn't designed yet? AI-coding is the LAST step in the process; work in this direction in the meantime is only minimally helpful in the long run.
2) HOI itself isn't finished yet. The pending redesign of the naval system, as well as the addition of new features [AI paraeters?], etc., will DRAMATICALLY affect the design of the AI.
3) The tech tree isn't done yet ... ergo (see above).
Am I off my nut? It seems to me that the whole focus of the game once we get to 0.9 should be AI, but not until.
It seems to me that there ought not be a great deal of effort poured into the AI at this point, for several reasons:
1) CORE isn't finished. How can you write an AI for a game that isn't designed yet? AI-coding is the LAST step in the process; work in this direction in the meantime is only minimally helpful in the long run.
2) HOI itself isn't finished yet. The pending redesign of the naval system, as well as the addition of new features [AI paraeters?], etc., will DRAMATICALLY affect the design of the AI.
3) The tech tree isn't done yet ... ergo (see above).
Am I off my nut? It seems to me that the whole focus of the game once we get to 0.9 should be AI, but not until.
71v love leaders
I just downloaded .71 I was greatly surprised to see leaders put in you may want to check Japan. A Major Gen. commands the combined fleet. Also you have 3 naval forces on 2 islands but no convoys to support them. The only reason I bring that up is the org. is so low it could be easly over looked at worse lost some ships or greatly damage them.
I just downloaded .71 I was greatly surprised to see leaders put in you may want to check Japan. A Major Gen. commands the combined fleet. Also you have 3 naval forces on 2 islands but no convoys to support them. The only reason I bring that up is the org. is so low it could be easly over looked at worse lost some ships or greatly damage them.
Depends on what you call "finished." If it means "no longer being updated" it may be years before HoI or CORE are finished. Even when CORE hits 1.0 it won't be finished. Lots of people are playing and enjoying them now and many would probably prefer improved AI to more (non-bugfix) changes in the rest of the game if it was an either/or choice.Chaplain said:It seems to me that there ought not be a great deal of effort poured into the AI at this point, for several reasons:
1) CORE isn't finished. How can you write an AI for a game that isn't designed yet? AI-coding is the LAST step in the process; work in this direction in the meantime is only minimally helpful in the long run.
2) HOI itself isn't finished yet. The pending redesign of the naval system, as well as the addition of new features [AI paraeters?], etc., will DRAMATICALLY affect the design of the AI.
3) The tech tree isn't done yet ... ergo (see above).
Am I off my nut? It seems to me that the whole focus of the game once we get to 0.9 should be AI, but not until.
jackson63ii said:
Thanx for then info on the Japanese setup. I did the assignments but I must admit that it got a little tough on concentration towards the end, so something had to slip in and not being asian didnt make it much easier. Way to many Chen, Chin and Changs to get confused about
Ill have a look at those convoys as well. Its been a long time since they were reviced and with all those naval changes it was destined to happen at some point.
Ghost_dk
boromir said:
Again, no problem, that's easy modification. But SP will still got deactivation block - AI is simply too unpredictable to allow it to upgrade tanks anytime it wants.
EDIT: I guess removing it from medium tanks only should be enough?
Copper Nicus said:Again, no problem, that's easy modification. But SP will still got deactivation block - AI is simply too unpredictable to allow it to upgrade tanks anytime it wants.
EDIT: I guess removing it from medium tanks only should be enough?
Yeah, mediums would be the only ones that qualify for this.
Hmm, I guess this would help the Germans a bit in fielding both 75mm (medium) and 75 (long). But the Russians will be able to field the 85mm much earlier due to the quality control. On the other hand the ability of the Germans to field a 75mm (long) does bridge the gap a bit, and they can build up a substantial tank force made up of 75mm (medium) earlier. So overall, I'm for the change.
Maybe Fiendix who is playing an MP game can comment (I heard the Russians in his game have fielded 80 tanks by 42
)? Russians get quality control about 298 days earlier than the Germans (they have a 15% advantage in research - 10% from the industry minister and 5% from the technical specialist - at the start it takes them 306 days to research industry techs compared to the German 360), which means now they get to field the latest and greatest with nearly a 10 month advantage (loads of time in MP) + they are ahead in tank tech.
Ok, "Soviet Advanced tanks in 1941" problem will be solved in the next big mod release (probably for 1.06), while deactivation issue got already fix submitted for the integration for the 0.72 MP.
Copper Nicus said:
Great
Anyway, overall the mod is great, much better to play in SP than plain HOI, much more fun with minors too
boromir said:Maybe Fiendix who is playing an MP game can comment (I heard the Russians in his game have fielded 80 tanks by 42
yes well somethig is wrong if the russians have the same amount of tanks than the germans (and better tanks I may add) and more infantry with a little worse tech (although this does not matter as they can develope the techs during the war). Blocking the advanced tanks evens it out in this field but this way the Russians still will have more "same" tanks.. well organization is probably 10-30% lower but those things still can be made up during war and I dont know how much effect it will have in battles.
Really you cant have a good mp game if the russians are as strong as the germans. The germans need to have the chance to build more tanks, planes etc. Also the Germans get a lot of dissent during the game + the constant retriggers of the blockades after reloads gave me an extra "free" 5% dissent. Orthank should comment from his side as the game still is up and I dont want to muddle in the saves
. Maybe adding extra dissent to cut down their IC or adding an event that increases IC after the MR pact or putting the russians behind in artillary.
F
BTW I am constantly attacked by the americans and have to hold a 12 tank unit in the west - so the AI is getting better (good job - although I do get a lot of 1 army attacks), but this also makes me even weaker against the russians..
Looking purely at A choices in the events the Russians get quite an easy ride. An obvious candidate would be the Purge events where a small dissent hit could be added for the historical choice (which wasn't exactly popular...). There's a lot of B choices or ahistorical events which give a dissent hit and of course the German occupation policy also has a major potential impact.
It's also questionable if USSR should start with 0% dissent.
It's also questionable if USSR should start with 0% dissent.
Fiendix said:Really you cant have a good mp game if the russians are as strong as the germans. The germans need to have the chance to build more tanks, planes etc. Also the Germans get a lot of dissent during the game + the constant retriggers of the blockades after reloads gave me an extra "free" 5% dissent. Orthank should comment from his side as the game still is up and I dont want to muddle in the saves
Fiendix, it's like 9 blocade events total, most of them dissent 1... Also most of them can be avoided when you Vichy the France, so where is this big hit? From DOW'ing other nations, ok, but not much more...
We can of course make fantasy game, where germans got more tanks and planes then USSR. But it was NEVER the case - even in the worst moments when Germans were closing to Moscow and all the mechanized units of western military disctricts were destroyed, Soviets had more tanks then Germans. And lots of them were better then their German counterpart, even with all their cons like tiny tower of T-34, lack of radios and untrained crews.
One question - how choosing different occupation policy affects Eastern Front? I've seen opinion, that 2 and 3 options can potentially cripple Soviets.
General suggestion - let's move with this topic to Multiplayer thread, ok?
Looks like last 2 pages of 0.7 thread are swamped by MP discussion.
Looks like last 2 pages of 0.7 thread are swamped by MP discussion.
Copper Nicus said:
I think your right that It would be a fantasy scenario to have more german tanks then russian ones, but then you could argue that perhaps german tanks should be better due to the tactics.
it was mentioned elsewhere on the forum(cant remember where) that in order to win the tank race german tanks would have to kill 10 soviet/allied tanks for each on lost. They only got a 7/1 so they lost the race.
Ghost_dk
EDIT: Maybe something for the Land doctrines. Expansion of Tank Crew Training/equipment utilization.
Copper Nicus said:General suggestion - let's move with this topic to Multiplayer thread, ok?
Looks like last 2 pages of 0.7 thread are swamped by MP discussion.
okay moved the answers to mp thread --> here
F
First off Great Job
In 3 games now as Germany after having chose the conditions of the USSR surrender the terms get rejected leaving a long dull walk to the Pacific.
what is the % chance of USSR refusal and is there any way to have the event refire as the war drags on.
Also the US seems a bit agressive declearing war in 39-40
In 3 games now as Germany after having chose the conditions of the USSR surrender the terms get rejected leaving a long dull walk to the Pacific.
what is the % chance of USSR refusal and is there any way to have the event refire as the war drags on.
Also the US seems a bit agressive declearing war in 39-40